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Post by cookie on Jan 5, 2009 18:03:53 GMT -5
The 6th Colonial Parachute Battalion.I'll start off with 1952 and work through to 1954. Soldat 1er Classe, Tu Le, October 1952Clothing:US M1943 Army herringbone-twill 'Frogskin' camouflage jacket. This item came in various patterns and designations such as the USMC P42 & P44 patterns. These jackets were worn by all ranks of the battalion up until 1953, when various other French and British uniforms began to replace them. British 1942 'Trousers, Windproof' sausage skin camouflage. These were worn by everyone in the unit until individually replaced by the French 47/52 camouflage suit in either 1953 or 1954. US M1 steel helmet. M1C paratrooper helmets of WWII origin were worn and had been factory fitted in the USA with webbed'A' frame harnesses and either webbed or leather chincups. The M1 variants were locally modified in Vietnam with cloth 'A' frame fittings modelled loosely on the US patterns. NB: the helmet was almost always covered by a US 1944 pattern net with integral neoprene band. This was usually worn with a first aid dressing tucked into the band. US M1943 double buckle 'ranger' boots. These were, along with the French Mle 50 jumpboots, the most prevalent item of footwear issued to the paras in Indochina. Although other patterns of footwear such as Mle 1917 hobnailed ankle boots and locally made 'pataugas' were also widely worn throughout the war. Webbing:US M1936 Pistol belt & M1910 canteen cup and cover. These and many other US WWII webbing items were issued in huge quantities to many CEFEO units. They were used particularly by the airborne forces until the introduction of French Mle 50 'TAP' items from 1951 onwards. Although US items could still be seen in varying quantities right up until the end of the war. Mle 50 'Brelage type TAP' equipment suspenders. Modelled closely on the US M1936 suspenders, featuring the same spring clips and adjusters. Mle 50 'Cartouchiere type TAP' cartridge pouches. These were a French design but featured a US style wire hangar on the reverse to attach to either US or French pistol belts. Mle 50 'Musette d'allegement type TAP' light pack. Modelled closely on the US M1936 musette pack although it differed in that it featured shoulder straps and not spring clips for attachment to the suspenders. Weapons:'Fusil MAS 36' rifle. The workhorse of the French military since WWII, the MAS 36, a 7.5mm 5 round bolt action rifle featuring an adjustable rear sight and a detachable cruciform spike bayonet. NB: The Colonial airborne were usually issued with the shortened MAS36 CR39 variant which featured a hollow aluminium fold-stock. US M4 carbine bayonet & M8 plastic scabbard. These items, and the US M3 fighting knife, were issued in large numbers to the CEFEO throughout the war. US M1 Fragmentation grenade. Issued in increasing numbers due to escalating US military aid. These were used indiscriminately alongside various French patterns.
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Post by cookie on Jan 14, 2009 13:18:30 GMT -5
Soldat 1er Classe, Lang Son 'Op. Hirondelle', July 1953.NB: Much of this soldiers clothing and equipment has not changed since October 1952, with the exception to the following:Clothing:British 1942 'Smock, waterproof' camouflage. The battalion was widely equipped, prior to July 1953, with this British WWII pattern smock. It was, like the trousers, much favoured by the paras due to its thinness and breathability in the humid climate of Vietnam. In the 6e BPC many of the men retailored the smock to have a shirt collar and zip front. Many variations existed featuring buttons, full-length zips etc. Casquette 'Bigeard'. This field-made cap, designed by the commander of the 6e BPC, Marcel Bigeard, was much favoured by the men and was usually made from the same material as the smocks. They were fitted with 'swallow tail' neck flaps.
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Post by Legion Etrangere on Jan 14, 2009 18:46:37 GMT -5
cookie,
as always *GREAT JOB* on the pics and the descriptions!
magnifique!
/martini/
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kroot
Nouvelle arrivée
Posts: 14
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Post by kroot on Mar 31, 2009 7:24:48 GMT -5
Looking very nice. Would like to put this look together for doing airsoft. Anyone else doing French airsoft out there? Any hints/tips on best kit to get when on a credit crunch budget?
For the weapon I was going to convert an m14socom with smaller mags.
Any help appreciated. I'm based in London UK.
Cheers.
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Post by Turner on Mar 31, 2009 12:32:49 GMT -5
Hi Kroot, if you don't have WW2 US or Brit stuff already, the cheapest way to start a French indochina impression is to buy a M1947 suit for about €45 or a 47/52 para suit for €100 (for example at http://www.trancheemilitaire.com). Whereas the first cheaper suit is much more infantry than para. A US helmet or a French bush hat will be the next. for webbing you could use a mixture of British p37, p44, us, French M46 leather or TAP 50 webbing gear. US or French double buckle boots, or even pataugas, the French linen jungle boots. I don't know what kind of Airsoft weapons are on the market, but the M14 Socom doesn't fit for that impression. A US M1Carbine would be better. With best regards, Turner
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kroot
Nouvelle arrivée
Posts: 14
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Post by kroot on Mar 31, 2009 13:31:30 GMT -5
Cheers for that Turner. I've got a fair bit of basic ww2 US kit and a little TAP 50 stuff ,and I have a m47 shirt/jacket that I got cheap,so looks like I should be able to start a basic load out and work from there.
As for weapons, well there is just nothing out there at all. I might get away with my mp40? Other than that it's a case of cobble together anything that can be converted to look vaigly right. M1 carbine, we wish!
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Post by oggy on Mar 31, 2009 17:34:47 GMT -5
MP40 - yes, for now...There's no need to convert kit.
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Post by cookie on Apr 18, 2009 10:05:30 GMT -5
An MP40 would be acceptable in the very first years of the Indochina war, up until around 1949/50 at the latest.
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Post by Legion Etrangere on Jul 12, 2009 20:03:12 GMT -5
Cookie,
Question: For Coloniale Airborne could the US camou jacket be worn with M47 trousers?
/martini/
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Post by cookie on Jul 13, 2009 7:34:23 GMT -5
Mick,
Not for the 6 BPC that I can tell. I would also say not for 8 BPC either, as both tended to wear british windproofs almost exclusively. I have seen various photos of Legion para units in 1951, 52, 53 and 54 wearing green M47 trousers with various patterns of US camo jacket. There is a well published photo of Legion paras (possibly engineers/sappers) who are wearing TAP webbing, US helmets, US camo jackets and French M47 trousers. It is labelled as being from Op Hirondelle 1953.
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Post by Legion Etrangere on Jul 13, 2009 9:35:44 GMT -5
I think I have seen those photographs of HIRONDELLE.
Thanks for the information cookie.
/martini/
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Post by Legion Etrangere on Jul 13, 2009 16:48:24 GMT -5
Cookie,
Another question I forgot to post, and one I am sure may have been asked before but I haven't taken a look at other posts:
CHIN STRAPS. Did Coloniale Airborne units wear BOTH in the infantry and the airborne style chinstraps? I remember seeing it in the Osprey Legion Para's book, but can't remember as my copy was left in a Viet restaurant about three weeks ago.... eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee while I was having pho.
Would the impression be correct with standard infantry chin straps?
Thanks.
/martini/
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Post by cookie on Jul 14, 2009 8:32:14 GMT -5
Mick,
Yes. Both M1 and M1C US helmets were worn. They were of WWII vintage and the greater majority of them were M1 infantry helmets with locally produced 'A' frames and chincups added. There is plenty of photographic evidence to show that M1C helmets were worn with the US factory fitted tan webbed 'A' frames and tan webbed chincups. Some locally made leather chincups were worn as well.
As for wearing standard infantry straps for airborne? Absolutely fine, loads of these helmets were worn, far more than ones with the para straps (the ones with the press studs for attaching to the liner). You would only have your para chincup and 'A' frames hanging down on show A) while preparing to board your plane for the jump, and B) when you'd just landed and hadn't had time to tuck the annoying things back up again.
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Post by Legion Etrangere on Jul 14, 2009 10:27:49 GMT -5
Merci, cookie,
I've seen both configurations and was not sure if was strictly an early war vs. mid to late war affectation, but knowing the incredible number of jumps undertaken by all airborne units, makes perfect sense.
/martini/
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Post by soldatsoucy1 on Jul 14, 2009 22:01:49 GMT -5
So in terms of 6 BPC......an appropriate uniform could consist of the frog skin HBTs Army pattern jacket and trousers or the Jacket and Windproofs...either would suffice?
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Post by cookie on Jul 15, 2009 5:08:12 GMT -5
Its not as easy as that!
It goes chronologically, I'll list the most common uniform items for each stage:
1952 (Tu Le): US M1/M1C helmet, with net & band US 'frogskin' camo jacket - USMC P44 or Army M43 British 1942 windproof 'sausage skin' trousers French Mle 50 jump boots or locally produced pataugas. An even mixture of US tan webbing and TAP mle 50 webbing. French Mle 48/49 bush hat. (The above uniform was almost universal amongst all ranks)
1953 (Lang Son): US M1/M1C helmet, with net & band British 1942 windproof 'sausage skin' smock & trousers French Mle 50 jumpboots Mostly TAP mle 50 webbing with odd bits of US webbing. Field made 'sausage skin' short brimmed bush hat (unit specific). (Still plenty wearing frogskin camo and windproof trousers).
1953 (Dien Bien Phu): US M1/M1C helmet, with net & band British 1942 windproof 'sausage skin' smock & trousers French Mle 50 jumpboots or US M43 buckle boots Mostly TAP mle 50 webbing with odd bits of US webbing. Field made 'Bigeard' cap (unit specific). (The odd men still wearing frogskin camo jackets, growing numbers wearing Mle 47/52 camo suits).
1954 (Dien Bien Phu): US M1/M1C helmet, with net & band Mle 47/52 camo suits or British windproof 'sausage skin' suits. French Mle 50 jumpboots or US M43 buckle boots Mostly TAP mle 50 webbing with odd bits of US webbing. Field made 'Bigeard' cap (unit specific).
Weapons remained mostly unchanged throughout: M1A1 carbines, MAT49's, CR39's LG48's, FM24/29's, Browning .30cals, 57mm recoilless rifles. MAS49's being seen for the first time at Dien Bien Phu in 1953.
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Post by Legion Etrangere on Jul 16, 2009 9:10:07 GMT -5
Cookie,
Does your research show the MAS36 as an early-war standardized weapon for FICW?
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Post by cookie on Jul 16, 2009 10:35:00 GMT -5
For airborne?
No, the Folding stock CR39 seems to be a fairly constant issue item throughout. During the earliest years of the war in Indochina, of which I am not very familiar with, it seems the paras were armed with British Lee Enfield rifles, Bren LMG's and Sten MkII SMG's. These were replaced by french CR39's, MAS38's and FM24/29's sometime around 1948. And the MAS38 being replaced by the MAT49 in 1950.
The issue of using wood stocked MAS36's when reenacting the paras is only mitigated by the complete lack of any CR39's available here. If they were available I'd certainly get one and not use my regular MAS. The grenade launching LG48 and later MAS49 and MAS36/51 variants were used by paras. The only way around it is to use, where available MAT49's, M1A1 carbines and the grenade launching rifles.
Frogskin camo seems to have begun being issued to paras in 1950. British windproofs sometime around 1951.
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Post by Legion Etrangere on Jul 16, 2009 13:10:41 GMT -5
Were the BCCP's issued the same weapons?
I am assuming that the BCCP's were raised in much the same way but with what came from the bottom of the barrell weapon wise as opposed to the Coloniale Para units.
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Post by ponchardier on Aug 7, 2012 21:33:05 GMT -5
That was Bigeard Bataillon I think, pantalon peau de saucisson, Marine Corps Veste, M1A1 Carbine MAT49 and Mas 49, and casquette Bigeard.
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Post by lew on Oct 2, 2013 7:37:46 GMT -5
Were the BCCP's issued the same weapons? I am assuming that the BCCP's were raised in much the same way but with what came from the bottom of the barrell weapon wise as opposed to the Coloniale Para units. The BCCP's were the Colonial parachute units. For the most part, the Metropolitan (French mainland) units were the first to get anything new and exciting, especially in regards to clothing, although some priority for weaponry was afforded to the airborne forces overseas. Some Metro airborne units (in particular 13e RDP and 1e RHP; 1e RCP being a notable exception) were still using M1 Garands and M1 Thompson SMG's up to 1956 while the colonial units had MAS-49's, MAT-49's, and AA-52 LMG's for some years prior.
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Post by lew on Oct 2, 2013 7:40:50 GMT -5
That was Bigeard Bataillon I think, pantalon peau de saucisson, Marine Corps Veste, M1A1 Carbine MAT49 and Mas 49, and casquette Bigeard. Bigeard led 6e BCCP/BPC 1952-54. He was commander of 3e RPC from 1955-57 in Algeria.
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luigi
Entraînement
Posts: 30
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Post by luigi on Dec 17, 2014 11:06:13 GMT -5
Amazing thread!
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Jacques
Entraînement
"Paruru te fenua" - Devise de la Regiment d'infanterie de marine du Pacifique (RIMAP)
Posts: 44
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Post by Jacques on Dec 15, 2020 15:26:08 GMT -5
could you guys help me? I narrowed it down to making a 6e BPC radioman 1954 at DBP I do a lot of research and would like to get a little more help to see what you would think thanks in advance!
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Post by craigtx on Dec 15, 2020 21:06:47 GMT -5
Help with what? Kit? Uniforms? We're always willing to give opinions, suggestions etc., but we need to know what areas.
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Jacques
Entraînement
"Paruru te fenua" - Devise de la Regiment d'infanterie de marine du Pacifique (RIMAP)
Posts: 44
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Post by Jacques on Dec 15, 2020 22:27:50 GMT -5
i was mostly looking for suggestions on uniforms and what would be the most common for this time
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Post by craigtx on Dec 16, 2020 8:21:36 GMT -5
From "Cookie"'s post above. This is a good basic guide.
1953 (Dien Bien Phu): US M1/M1C helmet, with net & band British 1942 windproof 'sausage skin' smock & trousers French Mle 50 jumpboots or US M43 buckle boots Mostly TAP mle 50 webbing with odd bits of US webbing. Field made 'Bigeard' cap (unit specific). (The odd men still wearing frogskin camo jackets, growing numbers wearing Mle 47/52 camo suits).
1954 (Dien Bien Phu): US M1/M1C helmet, with net & band Mle 47/52 camo suits or British windproof 'sausage skin' suits. French Mle 50 jumpboots or US M43 buckle boots Mostly TAP mle 50 webbing with odd bits of US webbing. Field made 'Bigeard' cap (unit specific).
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Jacques
Entraînement
"Paruru te fenua" - Devise de la Regiment d'infanterie de marine du Pacifique (RIMAP)
Posts: 44
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Post by Jacques on Dec 17, 2020 15:57:44 GMT -5
Thanks for the information! one more question is what was usually worn under the windproofs because to my knowledge the windproofs were made to be worn over regular clothing
Thanks!
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Post by lew on Dec 18, 2020 11:34:49 GMT -5
OD green wife beater/A-shirt, or, less commonly a t-shirt. Sweater in cooler months.
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Jacques
Entraînement
"Paruru te fenua" - Devise de la Regiment d'infanterie de marine du Pacifique (RIMAP)
Posts: 44
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Post by Jacques on Dec 19, 2020 20:17:47 GMT -5
Can any of you guys point out a fake TAP 50 belt? like one that was originally a tap 50/53 with a replacement buckle?
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