luigi
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Posts: 30 
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Post by luigi on Apr 2, 2015 2:40:21 GMT -5
That´s a excellent bunch of photos!
Thanks a lot Etienne!!!
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Post by lew on Apr 2, 2015 6:50:42 GMT -5
Merci, monsieur Étienne. Too bad the Kraut site does not continue on to Algérie. Oh well, it's useful for what it is, even if my German language ability is far worse than my French (or Portuguese, Spanish, or Italian- I really need to focus.).
Bitch time: Why are European web pages all laid out like that- center-adjusted text- usually double-spaced- interrupted by photos? Most- typically the amicale sites- have great pictures, some of which are usually formed into a collage with clip art and photo effects that appear to the work of a six year old. It makes reading through them a hassle, and these neat photos are now surrounded by trash.
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Post by craigtx on Apr 3, 2015 15:52:37 GMT -5
Excellent pics! Yeah, I think all of us are in the same boat Steve. It's the Mle. 47/52s that are holdin' us up.
Craig
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Post by Étienne on Apr 3, 2015 18:42:18 GMT -5
I'm trying to find at least one more photo to post of 8BPC guys in formation wearing the caps (in it, the guy in the foreground looks like he's yelling at someone else), as I only have a photocopy of the photo. But it's really cool. I've been told it's in ECPAD somewhere, and it's from 1953, but I can't find it. I originally found it in one of the Denis Lassus articles.
By the way, speaking of caps, I've found a bunch of photos of journalists/photographers at DBP wearing 8BPC looking caps. It's hard to tell whether they're 8BPC caps, baseball caps, or some type of surplus USAAF A-3 cap.
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luigi
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Posts: 30
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Post by luigi on Apr 5, 2015 4:09:02 GMT -5
By the way, speaking of caps, I've found a bunch of photos of journalists/photographers at DBP wearing 8BPC looking caps. It's hard to tell whether they're 8BPC caps, baseball caps, or some type of surplus USAAF A-3 cap. Hi again, Etienne! I´ve this one from my computer files, not sure about the origin (sorry), but i think is a journalist a DBP.  I think these photos are from 8e choc too:   Best regards, the FIWRB friends!!!! |
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Post by lew on Apr 5, 2015 6:03:11 GMT -5
Well done, luigi.
This is the first time I've seen an example of the Type 1 Windproof top with the addition a zipper. Very cool.
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Post by Étienne on Apr 5, 2015 7:49:49 GMT -5
Nice additions! Thanks for adding them! That last photo is especially cool.
See what I mean about the journalist caps? They seem more lake baseball caps than the 8BPC ones do...it looks like they have a front/central seam.
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Post by Étienne on Apr 5, 2015 8:02:44 GMT -5
Here's one from 1952 of French (military?) journalists with caps Attachments:
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Post by Étienne on Apr 5, 2015 8:56:01 GMT -5
Just watched this Battle of Na San video from ECPAD: www.ecpad.fr/regards-sur-lindochine-n4-na-san-une-bataille-dans-la-jungle...and there are several caps being worn in it by French individuals. One even looks like a US Army patrol cap, and there is a journalist with a baseball type cap on. The 8BPC was not at the battle (according to Wikipedia), but the para units that were are 1 BEP, 2 BEP, and 3BPC. Here's a still I grabbed: Attachments:
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Post by lew on Apr 6, 2015 12:27:10 GMT -5
The first photo are definitely US caps. The gentleman on the left wearing the US M1941 jacket and the one next to him wearing a US M43 jacket points to them being American. The one in "frog skin" camo is certainly interesting.
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Post by Étienne on Apr 12, 2015 16:55:42 GMT -5
OK, a few more (and I think I'll have a few more coming): The ones with the plane (a F8F Bearcat me thinks) in them are of Dien Bien Phu based Fighter Group 1/22. Note they have caps on, but I would think not likely of the 8BPC type. Was the Bearcat flown by the French Navy or Air Force? It may explain the style of cap, which of course and as said before looks like a USAAF/USN type. The one with the VM dead in the foreground has a Vietnamese para from 8BPC in it (center) and what I think is a 6BPC guy (or is he 8BPC?) to the right with canteens in hand. And no, I won't try and figure out if one of them is a Mle 52!  |
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Post by lew on Apr 13, 2015 9:49:31 GMT -5
That certainly looks like DBP with the Corsairs. The third picture looks like at least three different units could be represented if the guy with the canteens is indeed from 6e BPC. The lower canteen is a Mle. 51; I can see the chain and the side seam. The other looks like a P44. I wonder what unit the guy with calot is from? His pants look like Mle. 47 or 47/52 TTA trousers, and the airborne units had phased out the calot years prior to DBP (which is what this also looks like).
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Post by Étienne on Apr 14, 2015 14:19:51 GMT -5
Maybe he's from one of the Tunisian or Moroccan units? I believe all the photos were from a DBP collection online "somewhere" [ugh...gotta keep track of my sources]
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Post by lew on Apr 14, 2015 17:06:14 GMT -5
Judging from the shade of gray in the photo, it looks like a Legion calot- red on the top, red piping, and olive green wool body. The calots for the Tirailleurs are both a lighter gray. The Algerian's had yellow on the top and yellow piping, and the Moroccan's had green. Plus, the tiraulleur calots had insignia, and I can't make any out on that guy's.
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luigi
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Posts: 30
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Post by luigi on Apr 15, 2015 0:47:27 GMT -5
Hi again! Two other photos of 8ème choc during "operation Castor"   In last photo, the guy with the jump boots in back wears a M47/52 uniform!!! Best regards, les amis! |
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Post by craigtx on Apr 15, 2015 11:10:09 GMT -5
Excellent photos Luigi!
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Post by Étienne on Apr 15, 2015 13:26:11 GMT -5
That first pic looks more like a 6BPC Bigeard cap to me...?
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Post by Étienne on Apr 15, 2015 13:28:22 GMT -5
Here's my favorite 8BPC photo (see below). Obviously they're in formation, so I would assume it's either before or after one of their "excursions" outside the wire early on in DBP. (Hey...is that a Mle 52 canteen on that guy in the foreground? Haha...I kid, I kid...) Sorry the resolution of the photo sucks, but it's all I have for now. There should be a better copy of it somewhere on the ECPAD site, but I can't find it. Attachments:
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Post by lew on Apr 15, 2015 14:00:03 GMT -5
Interesting to note how "shabby" they look, like a combat unit should. Any staff NCO would have a heart attack at the sight of them. Excellent photo. Real captures the essence of the unit.
I'll have to wait until I'm at home to view Luigi's pictures. The Bigeard cap was most common in 6e BPC, but it was not an anomaly outside that unit. GCMA, for example, used them extensively. I'm sure some in 8e Choc used them, too.
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Post by Étienne on Apr 15, 2015 20:16:13 GMT -5
That's the interesting thing about that photo, it's nearly a total uniform and equipment free-for-all. There's a few guys whose uniforms I can't figure out exactly what it is they're wearing even.
Hmmm...so maybe we're figuring out that the various caps weren't strictly specific unit caps? I wouldn't be surprised, and/but it would throw an additional wrench into historians' deciphering of who's who in certain photos.
I've always thought that especially towards the end of DBP, if you lost a cap (for instance) you wouldn't give a darn if the only replacement was one that wasn't "specific" to your unit.
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Post by lew on Apr 15, 2015 20:20:57 GMT -5
The caps attributed to 8e Choc are indeed specific to that unit. Casquettes Bigeard were mostly found in 6e BPC, but other units had them in abundance, as well. I would also think that uniform norms and regulations would have gone to shyte near the end.
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luigi
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Posts: 30
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Post by luigi on Apr 16, 2015 1:14:16 GMT -5
Wow Etienne!!!! That photo rocks!!!!!!!!! Never seen before, a big thank you, amigo!
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luigi
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Posts: 30
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Post by luigi on Apr 16, 2015 2:02:36 GMT -5
Some references and photos from this highly recommend book    Best regards, les amis!!! |
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Post by lew on Apr 16, 2015 20:06:13 GMT -5
Luigi, once again, you prove your worth. Bon travail. I see an example of this book on eBay.fr. Have you seen it elsewhere?
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luigi
Entraînement
Posts: 30
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Post by luigi on Apr 17, 2015 0:35:28 GMT -5
Luigi, once again, you prove your worth. Bon travail. I see an example of this book on eBay.fr. Have you seen it elsewhere? Hi Lew! Got it from Ebay.fr too. That was money well spent, as the book is little (77 pages) but full of good photos/drawings! From the same collection, this one may be very usefull for the Algerian guys  Sample page  Best regards! |
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Post by lew on Apr 18, 2015 12:40:18 GMT -5
That would indeed be very useful. I will scour the web for a copy. Thanks!
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Post by craigtx on Apr 18, 2015 20:28:36 GMT -5
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Post by lew on Apr 19, 2015 9:13:16 GMT -5
I got both items off of eBay.fr fro the same price. That site has a bunch of other interesting magazines. Many thanks.
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Post by Étienne on Apr 20, 2015 9:54:27 GMT -5
Here's another photo of Tourret (and Cogny and Gilles) with his 8BPC cap Attachments:
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Post by Étienne on Apr 20, 2015 9:55:58 GMT -5
And two 1954 photos of a "commando" unit, wearing their distinct style of cap [from what I can tell] (note the LT's Fairbairn-Sykes knife in a M-8 scabbard and his Luger) Attachments:
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