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Post by Étienne on Mar 25, 2015 20:15:13 GMT -5
OK, here are the photos I currently have scanned (I'll add more later). Several of them I got from the 8e RPIMa veterans website, some are from EPCAD, some are from other sites I neglected to keep track of.
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Post by Étienne on Mar 25, 2015 20:16:02 GMT -5
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Post by Étienne on Mar 25, 2015 20:16:27 GMT -5
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Post by Étienne on Mar 25, 2015 20:17:14 GMT -5
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Post by Étienne on Mar 25, 2015 20:17:59 GMT -5
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Post by Étienne on Mar 25, 2015 20:18:55 GMT -5
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Post by Étienne on Mar 25, 2015 20:20:41 GMT -5
I have a few more but I need to scan them in first. With the last post, note that the first pic (of the guy with his back turned) shows the "elastic" on the back of the cap; the last pic (of just the cap) is from a French military collection, maybe ECPAD (?)
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Post by Étienne on Mar 25, 2015 20:21:21 GMT -5
And these pics show the cap being worn under the helmet Attachments:
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Post by lew on Mar 26, 2015 19:14:02 GMT -5
Très merveilleux! Excellent effort, and much appreciated. How did you manage to pull them off of the Amicale de 8e RPIMa site? Screen capture? I thought the pictures were protected. If you ever get about to making a repro cap, I'd be down. If you can't get the Windproof fabric, you could make them out of P42 camo fabric, which would probably be easier to acquire. One thing is clear: I'll never be able to pull off an 8e Choc impression. I'm way to big to match these scrawny dudes. Guess I need to lay off the weights and procure a good intestinal parasite or three. It's not hard to see how Legion statisticians reported an average weight gain of 20 pounds for Legionnaires returning from Indo after a month back in Algérie. ETA: One of the most iconic "uniforms" for paras in Indo is the P42 top and Windproof trousers. I have never once seen the inverse with the Windproof top and P42 trousers. Have you? It's either the former combo, all P42 camo, or all Windproof, usually within the same unit at the same time. Occasionally, a Denison Smock will make an appearance.
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Post by Étienne on Mar 26, 2015 20:45:16 GMT -5
Thanks! Like I said, if you see any mistakes please let me know and/or post the corrections to this page. Maybe others who know more than I do will add some information. I'd been storing up the information for years but never had a place to park it until now.
Ummm...to tell you the truth, I'm not sure, but I seem to recall doing screenshots of them! But maybe I got the pics on another page of the 8RPIMa site. Something I forgot to mention is that most of the guys in the pics are listed as KIA, and their names were listed with many of the photos.
Ha...yeah, you'll definitely have to stick to pre-DBP then, or perhaps get one of those huge WPG smocks so you look tiny in it. I think the 8BPC guys did a lot of "hiking around" through the jungle, so perhaps that's why they're all scrawny.
I have one image of a guy in a windproof top (an unmodified one at that, or at least it still has its hood) and in US Army camo M-1943 trousers, but not USMC P-1942 or P-1944 trousers. He's wearing the French TAP equipment and has a MAT 49 so it's later-ish in the FIW, maybe even at DBP. It's a photocopy of a photo though, so it's not very good quality. It was in one of the Denis Lassus articles about DBP. I can scan it and post it somewhere if you want. But, yeah, it's the only one I've seen; like you said, it's typically windproof trousers and a USMC top in most of the photos I've seen.
I'll let you know how my sample cap turns out, and if it looks good I'll message you about making you one, as I don't want to make more than a few, and for only the "true believers" at that! I'll post some pics when I get the first one done, as I'm still working on the pattern. I'll have to ask the ebay guy about the Brit windproof, too, as while I'll be making this first one out of frogskin, I'd much rather have a windproof one.
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Post by Étienne on Mar 27, 2015 12:02:46 GMT -5
Also, the guy in the foreground with the MAS-44 looks like he's wearing some kind of frogskin trousers (army M1943 maybe?) with a windproof top. These guys are 1BEP, patrolling in the DBP area. Attachments:
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Post by lew on Mar 27, 2015 19:00:38 GMT -5
Cool. I shall wear the combo with confidence if I so choose.
That's a MAS Mle. 49. Only the Commando de Marine used the Mle. 44 (and German G43, at least in Indo). All of the '44's were recalled by early 1951 as they had served their purpose as the test bed for the '49.
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Post by Étienne on Mar 28, 2015 9:19:51 GMT -5
Here's another one of the guy with the "reverse uniform" I mentioned before (the MAT49 in his hand always looked like a trombone to me!), and one of a guy I initially thought was 8BPC but apparently it is a pic of the commander of the 2BEP in 1952 Attachments:
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Post by Étienne on Mar 28, 2015 9:20:43 GMT -5
And here's two more of 8BPC guys at DBP wearing their caps: Attachments:
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Post by lew on Mar 28, 2015 10:14:55 GMT -5
You just don't stop, do you? Excellent. And, yes, that is Cdt. Raffali of 2e BEP with the cane, after whom the 2e REP's base on Corsica is named. It's good to know that, with the Windproofs, US "frog skins", and the Denison Smock, plus all the hats I have, I can mix and match to my little black heart's content and all the combinations would be correct. With a pair of Mle. 47/52's, my life would be complete.
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Post by Étienne on Mar 28, 2015 13:33:55 GMT -5
I'm a hoarder of "useful" information. I guess that's why I did well in intel in the Army for awhile and then became an historian (again, for awhile) after college. One of my not-so-secret obsessions is researching! thanks...hopefully people out there (besides us) in www-land can use the info one day. I know, I'm starting to lose track of what to wear with what. I'm going to have to make some better lists so I don't actually wear something from 1951 in 1949!
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Post by lew on Mar 28, 2015 18:39:41 GMT -5
Mixing up sub-periods of the War? How dare you even think that. Why I oughta... I actually oughta beat you soundly for using the article "an" before "historian". Yes, I'm a grammar Nazi, which is ironic cuz I'm a zhid. Anyway, Grammatik über alles. I excel at entertaining myself. I'm with you. I wasn't in the military, but intelligence gathering, snoopin' and poopin', researchin'- whatever ya want to call it, I enjoy it. Information is power. Speaking of which, and bringing it back to the topic, Douglas Porch's book on the French secret services is a must-read for anyone interested in French martial topics, especially Indo et Algérie. I got my P42 trousers, jacket, and béret in today and I'm smitten. Such a cool pattern and the uniform bits fit me like they were tailored for me.
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Post by Étienne on Mar 29, 2015 9:15:10 GMT -5
I know, I hate using the "an" but I was always told it's correct...as it's too proper English for me (as in Limey English, like dropping the "the" in things, such as "I went to hospital"...ugh). I think I will stop using it, as I pronounce the "h" in historian. Viva la grammar revolution! I'd love to read it...I've been interested much in the GCMA and the French intelligence in Indochina and Algeria since I studied some minor things about them while in the army. Our local training library had all kinds of great information on unconventional warfare, and that's what got me started on all this. Also, if only the French would write all their books in English... So, ya like them so far? You should give a review somewhere on this site. If only they'd do a P-44 I'd send them some money in an instant. I still have to think about a P42 top as I already have a M43 army camo top. Ugh, decisions, decisions! I know, first-world problems (actually, a super sub-genre of first-world problems even!).
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Post by Étienne on Mar 29, 2015 9:16:39 GMT -5
Here's more 8BPC cap pics (I think I only have a few more). They're all from 1953 and from Operation Hirondelle from what I recall (and all from ECPAD):
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Post by Étienne on Mar 29, 2015 9:17:18 GMT -5
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Post by Étienne on Mar 29, 2015 9:20:21 GMT -5
And the last for now: Attachments:
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Post by lew on Mar 29, 2015 11:07:08 GMT -5
De nouveau, très superbe! J'apprécie des photos.
I need to cruise through ECPAD again and steal their photos. I did that before with an older computer but cleared out most of my Indo pictures to make room for something that now seems not nearly as important, whatever it was. I don't understand why that site has so many more Indo pictures when Algérie was even more thoroughly documented on film. I don't mind pulling pictures from personal and amicale websites for that war, but something official would be nice.
Those Mle. 50 bottes de saut are mocking us.
I can do a walk-through of the P42 kit from Man The Line, plus beret and Bigeard cap I got from NCHS. It might be a bit, as I plan to lump it in with a bunch of other impression shots. It needs to warm up and add a little green before I do that. If you're on the fence and want to make a decision shortly, the summary is this: good stuff. Seems look great, the pattern is excellent, shipping was free and fast, and the sizes are true. I would purchase again without hesitation.
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Post by Étienne on Mar 29, 2015 12:53:12 GMT -5
I know, ECPAD can be a black hole of time spent looking up cool stuff, as every time I go through it I find something new (it's likely due to my poor search methodology, as my French isn't good). It is weird/odd that there aren't as many Algeria photos...I wonder if they just didn't allow photographers along as much, or there was more censorship, or...?
Ha, I know. I've been stalking a few Mle 1950 canteens and/or covers on ebay.fr, but since I've spent about $200 this past week on stuff from France (yes, it's mostly your fault!), I need to hold off a bit on my FIW buying spree for now.
That's good to know about Man The Line, as online reviews about them are mixed. That they have a used section is very cool in itself. Their new boots look a bit flimsy, leather-wise, but they have some used ones that look good.
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Post by lew on Mar 30, 2015 6:41:12 GMT -5
Every military practiced censorship back then, but Algeria was crawling with Service Cinématographique des Armées teams and troops could easily afford cameras. Actually, ECPAD just added some pictures and video of the first couple years in Algeria: archives.ecpad.fr/tag/thema-debut-guerre-algerie/I'm happy to help lighten your wallet. I have a Mle. 51 canteen (to replace the rust bucket I have currently), insigne de sergent chef de Troupes de Marine, and un poche de chargeurs TAP de FM-24/29 on the way. Will I ever get an FM-24/29? Seems like a slim chance, but there a few floating around here in the states. Still, it's wishful thinking at this point. Whom do you recommend for M43 boots? That's the last thing on my list (unless Mle. 47/5x TAP uniforms come around again). I was looking at MtL's offering, as ATF is out of size 10's. They have a return policy, so I might chance it with their boots if a known quantity from another supplier can't be found.
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Post by Étienne on Mar 30, 2015 9:15:47 GMT -5
I'm wanting FM-24/29 as well, but it does seem as if it would be a tough one to acquire. The closest I've gotten lately is there's a place (can't remember where right now) that sells M-1919A4 semiauto kits for about $1500, and I've found a few places that sell Bren kits and the parts to get it going for just under $1000. I'm more drawn to the magazine on top LMG's it seems, so that's why a 24/29 would make me happy.
Do you have any 24/29 magazines yet? I don't recall where I found them, but I seem to recall someplace online selling them for like $4 or $5 each. If you want I can find and then post the link. I've thought about putting together a musette of them, but maybe that's phase II of my FIW kit (next thing you know I'll be pouring concrete for my De Lattre Line bunker!).
I think WWII Impressions has the best boots around, ATF's are nice and they are cheaper (ATF's are also oversized by between a half and one full size, so perhaps you could try a size 9?). MTL has them, but the tops (the "gaiter" part) looks funny to me. BTW, I think MTL has them cheaper through ebay than through their website. I've actually seen some decent sized originals on ebay that have been around $100, but they might need some work if you wanted to actually wear them outside. Speaking of ebay and "double buckle" boots, sometimes I've seen the gaiter parts of the boots being sold on ebay for cheap (like $10-$15 a set of originals), so maybe you could redo a pair if needed? Likely more work than it's worth, but maybe?
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Post by lew on Mar 30, 2015 12:19:20 GMT -5
I just ordered 10 magazines from IMA. $6.60 each for ten with hand pick option. The top-mounted magazine LMG's- FM-24/29, ZB 26 and 30, Bren, Madsen- are so neat. Now, an AA-52, I would happily murder for. I've thought about getting some land in the high desert when I move out that way and making an Algerian War outpost. A CH-34 helicopter and a Hotchkiss M201 Jeep copy would be awesome, and my 13e RDP impression would be complete with a Ferret Scout Car. WW2 Impression's boots look great, but that price. Damn! I don't mind paying extra for quality, but I think I'll take a chance with MtL. Somewhat back to the topic: Is there a master list of operations in Indo with orders of battle, areas of operations, action summaries, etc...? I have a listing of the airborne operations, but that is limited to where, when, and the primary unit.
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Post by Étienne on Mar 30, 2015 14:21:53 GMT -5
IMA ight have been where I saw the mags for sale. Nice that you could get them hand-picked...at least you won't get a square of rust that way.
Yeah, that is the only "issue" I have with WWII Impressions so far. If money's not an issue, they are the place to get most WWII era footwear. I'm relatively happy with my ATF boots, but when I got them they were less $ than they are now. Sometimes they have great sales, so ya never know what the price might be in another week!
I've found bits and pieces across the internets (there's a German site on the FFL that is almost TMI), but so far I think my favorite is ECPAD, as it has great downloadable PDF files of unit histories and etc., but the documents are tough to find within the website sometimes (and also hard to interpret, thanks to my lousy French).
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Post by Étienne on Mar 30, 2015 17:03:27 GMT -5
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Post by lew on Mar 31, 2015 7:52:32 GMT -5
Do you have a link to that German site? I remember there was one site with only information on the Legion, and then there was another that sold all kinds of Legion crap. I think the latter shut down, but they had 50's period-correct képis blancs and insigne.
Any luck finding Windproof fabric?
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Post by Étienne on Apr 1, 2015 10:30:30 GMT -5
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