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Post by lt13demi on Nov 21, 2008 9:40:37 GMT -5
Okay! Here's what I wanna know. Why are their NOS, size 47 (US size 11), Pautagas everywhere? ? 50's dated.... There's a shop here in town that literally has dozens of new pairs of these things!!!!! I picked up 2 new pair from a collector! I see them on E-Bay! All size 47!!!! My only reasoning for this is there were evidently smaller feet in Viet Nam!!! But there had to be bigger feet in Algeria.. One would think? ? Just pondering this point... Renault
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Post by Legion Etrangere on Nov 21, 2008 10:39:10 GMT -5
mon lt.,
one of the reasonings on that i picked up from a 2e REP vet who told me that many of the people who were shipped to l'indochine were concentration camp survivors, survivors of the winter campaign '44-'45, and many men who joined up after the war; vitamin deficiency, poor circulation, non-existant food - sheesh, the list goes on.
its interesting in that he later told me that those who survived indochina and returned to north africa put on 20-30 pounds instantly ... also remarking about the beer vs wine gastroentestinal factoid you mentioned at waxahachie! i had heard that before but could not quite put my finger on it.
red wine should be a seminal part of everyone's diet (come to think about it, i think we should start a thread on food and drink in the CEFEO!!)
/martini/
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Post by arnorment on Nov 21, 2008 11:33:00 GMT -5
I concur with Mick. Food is an integral part of culture; anyone's culture. So much that is done within a population revolves around food production activities, procurement, and consumption. Whether it be out of tradition or necessity, food is important top people, and when a group of people have the time, energy, and resources to sit down and actually think about what they can chose to eat, as opposed to what they have to eat, a specific type of cuisine is born!! So I think that food and wine deserve as much a part in this discussion as anything else.
The luxuries of home tend to find a way to far off lands!! And it would also be very interesting to look at the amalgamation in food and drink that was created as a result of global interaction among the French and whomever with they came into contact. French cuisine and culture have always been a very powerful force, and it is actually seen infused today in a lot of Vietnamese cuisine.
So there! The anthropologist in me has escaped!!! For me it always comes back to..."Why do people want this, eat this, use this, shoot this, "love" this, etc...?" I hope that I can help add to the topics on ethnic and cultural diversity within the unit. I think by looking outside the typical "popular" topics pertaining to all this, we can really build a more informed understanding of what we are really attempting to do.
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Post by Turner on Nov 21, 2008 12:48:35 GMT -5
Okay! Here's what I wanna know. Why are their NOS, size 47 (US size 11), Pautagas everywhere? ? 50's dated.... There's a shop here in town that literally has dozens of new pairs of these things!!!!! I picked up 2 new pair from a collector! I see them on E-Bay! All size 47!!!! My only reasoning for this is there were evidently smaller feet in Viet Nam!!! But there had to be bigger feet in Algeria.. One would think? ? Just pondering this point... Renault My original pair is exactly what you describe. Size 47 brand new Pataugas, which I have not worn yet. Up to now I used my recent production Wissart-Boots, which I "liberated" from the double buckle gaiter-section. For the large sizes I would guess that the small sizes were issued over the years, whereas the large sizes remained in depot. The size 47 ones seem to have been sold now. And as they are he only NOS ones they appear everywhere. Btw., how much are the boots in the US? I paid 20 Euros for the pair. With best regards, Turner
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Post by lt13demi on Nov 21, 2008 20:40:54 GMT -5
"Btw., how much are the boots in the US? I paid 20 Euros for the pair."
I'll find out first chance I get......
Renault
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Post by ausdig on Nov 22, 2008 7:11:14 GMT -5
Im looking for some if anyone has a link ? In the States or Europe.
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Post by oggy on Nov 22, 2008 11:39:50 GMT -5
Im looking for some if anyone has a link ? In the States or Europe. That goes double for me......
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Post by ausdig on Nov 23, 2008 8:24:27 GMT -5
Anyone know any vendors in Europe ?
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Post by lt13demi on Nov 23, 2008 10:14:35 GMT -5
I'll find out Monday what the vendor here wants for the 47's he has. He's easy to work with so I'll see if he's interested in a possible quantity purchase. I have 2 pair of size 47's. I wear a US size 10 1/2. I installed a pair of those thick gel/foam inserts and they are very comfortable. I've worn them to several events and tacticals with no problems. They don't slip around all that much. I can run pretty well (for a 53 y.o. geezer) in them! Renault
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Post by sgtjeanvaljean on Nov 24, 2008 11:31:06 GMT -5
Lt. Renault,
Please let me know on either site the price of the 47,s good inserts and a proper sock makes them great for those who wear a 10 1/2 US.
Sgt. Valjean
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Post by lonestarcharlie on Dec 18, 2008 14:51:45 GMT -5
I have a question (forgive my ignorance of all things French) about a pair of boots I have from Sportsmans Guide... here's the link: www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=97128I bought these to use as cheap loaners when bringing friends to US WWII events (I know, I know, they're not the correct combat boots, but it was either that, or not invite friends). They claim that they are french. Can anyone here identify them? Could I use them as "captured" french boots when doing Viet Minh?
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Post by lt13demi on Dec 18, 2008 15:44:02 GMT -5
Yes they are French. Most of these that Sportsmans Guide sells are of Algerian war vintage. But they are just like the (I believe) the French M 1950 boot... Turner, Hoover, correct me on this!!!!
Actually they are a very well made boot! I feel built better than the American M43 double buckle's they are copied from. Occassionaly,I use mine for a hunting boot.
Renault
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Post by Turner on Dec 19, 2008 14:26:39 GMT -5
These French boots are of a very good quality! I've also a pair of them. Before they were produced in black there were two kinds of the French boots. As far as I know the M1950 are a closer copy of the US double buckle boots. They have an extra added gaiter section(one horizontal seam around the ankle) and the straps of the of the gaiters are normally sewn and riveted to the gaiter. Like these: At the later version (M1962?) only the gaiter flap is sewn to the boot (one vertical seam) and the straps are part of the flap. Like these: I think there was a transitional model of boot between the hob nailed M1917/1945 boot and the M1940 "Ranger" - boot. I think there were also M1917/1945 boots with rubber sole. And when you have a close look at the first picture you can see another rubber sole than on the "normal" M1950-Rangers and the seam of the gaiter section looks quite crude to me. So I would say that these were rubber soled boots without gaiter section which were turned to 1950 boots by adding the gaiter section. Any thoughts about that? Turner
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Post by oggy on Dec 19, 2008 15:21:08 GMT -5
Do they export them to UK?
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Post by lonestarcharlie on Dec 20, 2008 23:29:49 GMT -5
I bought several pairs of the french boots from Sportsman's Guide, and I was very dissappointed (shouldn't have bought 4 pair at once!). The leather is extremely stiff and the sizes ran small... plus the french must have twigs for ankles because the double buckles wouldn't fit around my legs even on the largest notch, and I have very skinny legs! Just an FYI for anyone thinking about purchasing them
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Post by grog on Dec 21, 2008 21:49:26 GMT -5
Thanks for the heads up on the size. Depending on the boot or shoe I take an 11 or 12 and was wondering if these ran large or small. I had heard about them being stiff.
On another note, I got my Pautagas this weekend and love them. Very comfortable boots.
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Post by lt13demi on Dec 22, 2008 11:21:43 GMT -5
I believe the boots are made of Bull hide, like Charolais from the south of France. Extremely thick leather. The only thing I've seen thicker were water buffalo (which these could very well also be) or elephant hide! I picked up a pair several years ago and am thoroughly satisfied with the fit. As stated in their instructions I went the next size up for my 10 1/2 half size to US 11. Worked out great! I wear them occassionally while hunting in rattlesnake infested areas west of home. They also give good ankle support. The areas here where I hunt are the spitting image of the rocky and craggy areas of Algeria!
Renault
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Post by supertrooper on Jan 20, 2009 7:23:29 GMT -5
Im looking for some in about 8 to 8 1/2 if anyone has a link ? In the States or Europe
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Post by lt13demi on Jan 20, 2009 14:02:03 GMT -5
"Im looking for some in about 8 to 8 1/2 if anyone has a link ? In the States or Europe "
So is everyone else Supertrooper!!!!!! ;D
Bonne chance!!!!!!
Renault
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Post by grog on Jan 20, 2009 15:36:05 GMT -5
"Im looking for some in about 8 to 8 1/2 if anyone has a link ? In the States or Europe " So is everyone else Supertrooper!!!!!! ;D Bonne chance!!!!!! Renault Yeah, it's a running joke here about how all that is available is size 47. Some run large, some small, but all 47. I doubt however that any of them run quite small enough to fit an 8 or 8 1/2 unfortunately.
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Post by Legion Etrangere on Jan 20, 2009 16:56:35 GMT -5
sheesh! i feel awful! almost EVERYTHING fits me!!!!!!!!! ;D its all those no 3's supersized with a coke! /martini/
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Post by mahlmann on Jan 20, 2009 23:57:43 GMT -5
I've got three pairs of the US 11 pataugas. For once I can find boots in my size. I might have overpaid a bit as they came from France, but I did manage to cultivate a connection with the dealer.
I also have a reenactor friend that is in Paris right now. I don't know if there is much I can as him to look for, but any suggestions would be helpful.
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Post by supertrooper on Jan 21, 2009 14:58:42 GMT -5
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Post by legionnaire on Jan 21, 2009 21:45:51 GMT -5
I would double check the advertised size. I do not believe a Euro size 39 equals a US size 9. I am a US size 9 and I fit in a Euro 42. Most conversion tables agree with my experience.
Legionnaire
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fmf
Entraînement
Posts: 38
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Post by fmf on Jan 22, 2009 5:13:24 GMT -5
I recived My Leather French Boots Yesterday from Sportsmans Guide , I orderd a size 11 , what I got was a Euro size 43 , they fit fine just I cant use any inserts , the top gaiter is a little small for My leg , I will try to strech them or move the buckel , did they use a Boot like this without the Gaiter or cuff flap ? , I could just cut them off in that case , the Quality is fine on these and they are very heavy duty , a much better boot then what the Marine Corps issued me in 68
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Post by Turner on Jan 22, 2009 12:20:18 GMT -5
These French boots are of a very good quality! I've also a pair of them. Before they were produced in black there were two kinds of the French boots. As far as I know the M1950 are a closer copy of the US double buckle boots. They have an extra added gaiter section(one horizontal seam around the ankle) and the straps of the of the gaiters are normally sewn and riveted to the gaiter. Like these: At the later version (M1962?) only the gaiter flap is sewn to the boot (one vertical seam) and the straps are part of the flap. Like these: I think there was a transitional model of boot between the hob nailed M1917/1945 boot and the M1940 "Ranger" - boot. I think there were also M1917/1945 boots with rubber sole. And when you have a close look at the first picture you can see another rubber sole than on the "normal" M1950-Rangers and the seam of the gaiter section looks quite crude to me. So I would say that these were rubber soled boots without gaiter section which were turned to 1950 boots by adding the gaiter section. Any thoughts about that? Turner As I've written earlier the boots should work fine without the gaiter, which are always too small! I'll also cut off the gaiters from my boots. For an early impression you could wear them with US, British, or French Mle1945 gaiters. Ebay Art.No. 140295330850 Though most of the gaiters on the market are as small as the fixed gaiters. Regards, Turner
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fmf
Entraînement
Posts: 38
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Post by fmf on Jan 22, 2009 15:15:15 GMT -5
You can get Human size Leggings or gaiters either British or U S from 'What price Glory " He has repros and originals of both types wirth the Larger sizes being repro , I have bought both from him and they are very good
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Post by Turner on Jan 22, 2009 18:11:43 GMT -5
You can get Human size Leggings or gaiters either British or U S from 'What price Glory " He has repros and originals of both types wirth the Larger sizes being repro , I have bought both from him and they are very good You're right. I meant that especially the most French gaiters are as small as the fixed gaiters. I use original 3R US gaiters and repro Brit gaiters from SoF in size 5. But all the French gaiters that I've seen up to now were too small. And I don't think that there are reproductions on the market by now. Regards, Turner
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Post by niv on Jan 24, 2009 11:56:04 GMT -5
Looking online I have found what I believe can be described as "acceptable substitute" French canvas boots. Although they are high top - with the cuff - they are otherwise pretty damned close to the size 47s we've all grown accustomed to seeing. The nice thing is that they are being sold in sizes 7 1/2, 8 1/2 & 9!
Please look at www.worldcamo.com/equipment.htm and check under/scroll down to "French Canvas Boots." They are supposed to be "mint," and sell for the low-low price of $55.00.
They also have what are described as "French Canvas Patugaus" New style w/hightop. Green soles. Wissart Mfg. Size 43cm. (U.S. 9 1/2) for $45.00
Saving the best for last you may also look at www.troph-e-shop.com for what are described as "French Commando boots canvas olive" (Lightweight and comfortable boots of breathable fabric, 5-hole lacing, reinforced heel section, detachable inner sole, lifted rubber edge, flexible rubber sole, naps on the edge.) which also appear as an "acceptable substitute." The best part is that - before shipping - they are Euro 14,99 AND they come in all sizes (even 47s)! The negative is that there is a Euro 25 minimum for orders. Go in with someone else, check your US size on any of the shoe size conversion charts and order away! They take PayPal and all major credit cards.
More reports as events warrant.
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Post by Turner on Jan 25, 2009 11:54:18 GMT -5
I recived My Leather French Boots Yesterday from Sportsmans Guide , I orderd a size 11 , what I got was a Euro size 43 , they fit fine just I cant use any inserts , the top gaiter is a little small for My leg , I will try to strech them or move the buckel , did they use a Boot like this without the Gaiter or cuff flap ? , I could just cut them off in that case , the Quality is fine on these and they are very heavy duty , a much better boot then what the Marine Corps issued me in 68 I think I've found a missing link. An ebay dealer offers French Mle45 (-ish) leather boots without gaiter but with rubber soles! Voila! (So the use of boots with cut off gaiters should be okay) He offers also nice Mle1945 hobnailed boots. Just in case that someone needs a pair. ebay-Art.no.: 190281457812 Regards, Turner
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