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Post by earlymb on Mar 8, 2021 6:43:13 GMT -5
Gents, what exactly is the difference between TAP 50 and TAP 50/53 suspenders?
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Post by can on Mar 11, 2021 5:57:27 GMT -5
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Post by earlymb on Mar 11, 2021 8:10:26 GMT -5
Thanks, some interesting information but unfortunately not what the difference is between 50 and 50/53 suspenders, if any?
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Post by can on Mar 11, 2021 15:34:10 GMT -5
Some of the pictures show some variations but that could be modified US equipment. I have two sets of what I thought were 50/53's but after seeing your post on the other site I researched it and they are indeed 50's like you had indicated. I just assumed they were a later model because they were new unissued and how could that be? Anyway the fellow who posted in the Upcoming Events thread kwcantwell has authenticity guidelines that mention modifying 53's to the acceptable 50 type. Maybe he has some information. It must not be a big difference if it can be modified. There may be no substantial difference as there are photos of 2REP in Kolwezi with the suspenders I have? Good luck
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Post by earlymb on Mar 13, 2021 7:39:46 GMT -5
Where can I find those guidelines? Maybe from those I can deduce what the actual difference is?
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Post by can on Mar 13, 2021 8:07:32 GMT -5
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Post by earlymb on Mar 13, 2021 13:48:55 GMT -5
Thanks for that! 
It appears there might not have been TAP50/53 suspenders, just the TAP50? I am aware there are differences in belts.
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Post by Kenneth on Mar 16, 2021 17:15:57 GMT -5
According to Guyader's book on the Foreign Legion in Algeria, the 1953 equipment was the 1950 equipment modified with extra rivets (or stronger rivets). Other individual equipment was apparently modified in the same way. The cartridge pouches were modified as well but it appears that they were only introduced in 1951 as part of the type TAP. My translation is weak. Either way, these modifications may be difficult to distinguish in photos. Also, it's possible that individual equipment pieces would not necessarily be fully identified in all documents, not that I've seen any. I don't know if older equipment would be brought up to the latest standards or not or even if it would be the first to be issued out to units and individuals. None of the photos I've looked at recently suggest that personal alteration of individual web gear was ever done but that it was always worn as intended. That is not to say, however, that it was always worn as a complete set. Anyway, that's the best I could come up with.
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Post by earlymb on Mar 17, 2021 18:52:05 GMT -5
Thanks, while ammo pouches and the like were indeed modified by adding rivets, wider hooks etc. it seems there was just one model suspenders and those don't seem to have been modified after all. That would mean TAP50 suspenders of any date of production are correct for Indochina and Algeria I think.
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Post by can on Mar 18, 2021 2:37:28 GMT -5
That makes sense that style is seen in many eras
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Post by Kenneth on Mar 18, 2021 4:13:03 GMT -5
Well, Guyader's book did say they were modified, which I take to mean that new production was made a little differently. The basic style certainly didn't change. But none of that is of any help in distinguishing them unless you had two side by side for comparison. It would be doubtful that the latest version made it to Indochina. However, the same author's book on the Legion in Indochina, which happily is in English, also mentions those same modifications in 1953. Apparently all the web equipment got more rivets, except for the belt, which got a different buckle. Some of the illustrations of web equipment are identical in the two books but are reproduced larger in the one on Indochina.
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Post by earlymb on Mar 18, 2021 7:52:01 GMT -5
I have Guyader's book on the Legion in Algeria, but I think I missed that... do you recall what page?
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Post by Kenneth on Mar 18, 2021 15:49:28 GMT -5
Starts on page 193. But see starting on page 203 of his book on the Legion in Indochina, if you have that volume. He specifically says the rivets were doubled but there doesn't seem to be an illustration of the later version. He doesn't use the term "Model 50/53." He does, however, use those terms in referring to the combat suits (47 and 47/53) and the jump uniforms (47, 47/51, 47/53, 47/54 and 47/56). I don't think any of those designations appeared anywhere on the uniforms.
If it's any consolation, the pattern for the officer's service dress uniform jacket changed about four times between the wars.
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Post by earlymb on Mar 20, 2021 10:58:37 GMT -5
Thanks, found it. Guyader states on page 193 that 'in 1953, the rivet of the straps is doubled'; I'm not sure what he means with that. I have 1 pair of TAP50 suspenders and they have 4 rivets, one under and one above each of the big metal buckles at the front. I don't have his Indochina book.
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Post by Kenneth on Mar 22, 2021 6:18:26 GMT -5
His book on Indochina, which I recommend, says the same thing and in English. Looking through most of my references, I was not able to find any photo that clearly shows the suspenders/braces with "doubled" rivets. There were, however, few photos of men actually wearing them, even when wearing other field equipment such as belts and ammo pouches. However, please note, the US M-1936 suspenders (Suspenders, Belt, M-1936 Stock No. 74-S-389), which was used in quantity by the French Army, does have two rivets where the shoulder straps are attached to the two pairs of front straps. But it's easily distinguished by the d-rings for attaching the "Bag, canvas field, od, M-1936," which was sometimes referred to as a musette bag, a term no doubt picked up in France in WWI.
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Post by earlymb on Mar 22, 2021 20:54:14 GMT -5
I have a number of M1936 suspenders and musette bags, so I'm familiar with them. While doing some more digging I came across this website of a dealer that claims that the first type TAP50 suspenders have hollow rivets: majormilitary.eu/products/bretelles-de-suspension-tap-50-rivets-creuxI must say I'm not convinced by that, it looks more like a production variation to me? |
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Post by can on Mar 23, 2021 6:00:17 GMT -5
Wow He certainly isn't shy. Those prices pretty high especially for some truly common items.
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Post by earlymb on Mar 23, 2021 21:26:44 GMT -5
That they are. he seemed to have had some nice items for sale though.
Anyway, it will be impossible to tell from original pics if they are wearing these first type (?) suspenders with hollow rivets...
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Post by can on Mar 24, 2021 6:08:52 GMT -5
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Post by earlymb on Mar 24, 2021 8:32:16 GMT -5
Thanks for the suggestion, I sent the seller a message and I'll post any reply I might get.
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Post by earlymb on Mar 29, 2021 4:42:15 GMT -5
It seems I won't be getting a reply from him.
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