etranger1953
Nouvelle arrivée
À l'outrance! En avant!
Posts: 9
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Boots
Jul 29, 2015 16:37:34 GMT -5
Post by etranger1953 on Jul 29, 2015 16:37:34 GMT -5
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Post by lew on Jul 29, 2015 19:30:33 GMT -5
First, the "Pataugas" in the last link appeared in the early '70's. Too late for either conflict, but widely used in Chad, Central Africa, and Lebanon. What Price Glory is working with Dehner Boot Co. on Mle. 50 boots. They are the only model of full boots that will work for both wars. The 50/53 variant has a different tread pattern, and is otherwise identical, but saw use during the closing days of Indo and on into Algérie. The repros should be out in a few weeks, but expect to pay a pretty penny for quality boots. Originals are near impossible to find in any wearable condition. The M43 boot was by far the most common throughout Indochine and saw some use elsewhere in the French Empire- Madagascar, North Africa, Dakar- during that war. They were all phased out outside of Indochina well before the Algerian War kicked off. I just sold my M43 boots. The design sucks, to put it lightly. Hellishly uncomfortable and the footbed slopes toward the toe box. For some reason, the suede doesn't breath nearly as well as full-grain leather. Man The Line offers well-made repros. I required a size smaller than my actual size (size 10 feet, measured, size 9 boot). The Mle. 52 buckle boots/"Rangers" entered service with Metropolitan (France proper, West Germany, North Africa) French forces in 1952 with the single strap variant. They DID NOT see service in Indochina (although some are rumored to have appeared after the war to supply ARVN troops). The two strap version with the rivets holding the straps appeared in mid-1955, and the final version with the one-piece double-strap sewn to the upper appeared in early 1960. The first Tranchee link has the second type (1955) pictured. Doursoux's offering pictures the third type (1960). Don't worry about the first version, as you'll never see them. Go for the 1955 (riveted strap) version, as that will cover almost all of the Algerian War and they are very reasonably priced. Contact Tranchee and make sure that's what you're getting. I've received both styles from them. Unlike the M43, I can wear my Mle. 52's all day without issue, sans insoles, and with regular-weight socks. Apply foot powder to your feet and lace them snugly to keep the feet in place, but not tight enough to cause circulation issues. Leather will stretch as your body warms it, so you may need to re-lace. Mle. 45, 46, and 52 brodequins saw some occasional use in the airborne units, but were de rigeur for regular Legion and other Army units. They were worn with gaiters- typically the Mle. 51(?). British ammo boots were found early in the war, particularly amongst non-airborne Colonial units. These various leather shoes were phased out for front line use during Algeria, but some were issued to troops in training. The Mle. 52 boot was the standard for all units- Army, Navy, Air Force, airborne, TTA- for that war. Some units blackened theirs; most did not. Refer to this thread for non-polished leather care advice: frenchindochinawar.proboards.com/thread/586/psa-on-leather-care?page=1&scrollTo=4483
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Post by lew on Jul 30, 2015 13:39:26 GMT -5
I forgot to mention US M1942 Corcoran-made airborne boots and the commercial variant. These boots were only ever a common sight in 1e RCP in Indo. They did not hold up well to constant dampness, yet they were a definite prestige item belying that unit's status as the first amongst the airborne units, as well as its heavy American influence in equipment and doctrine picked up during WW2. The M1942 boot saw scattered use in other airborne units. 1e Choc also used them in some quantity.
There is a picture in Les Paras Français en Algérie of 3e RCP in November 1957 during Opération Timimoun in northwest Algeria. One of the paras- radioman, I believe- has American boots. The book notes them as US M1948 russet service boots. I've come across no explanation of how that soldier acquired them. Perhaps bartering with US troops in Korea or West Germany. Even if it was a pair '42's, it would still be odd to see those boots in a Colonial airborne unit. It would be more plausible if they were commercial boots, but I have no idea. The boots are identical except for some details on the sole- the M1942 has a bevel on the leading edge of the heal to prevent snagging, and the M1948 has a rubber instep that is formed from the same piece as the toe and ball area of the sole, vice the '42's leather instep. The '42 has 12 eyelets to the '48's 11.
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Boots
Jul 30, 2015 17:11:47 GMT -5
Post by craigtx on Jul 30, 2015 17:11:47 GMT -5
There is pic of the 2e BEP, in Les Paras Francais En Indochine 1945 - 1954, in 1952 wearing US 1943 HBTs and Mle 1917 brodequins and Mle 1950s.
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etranger1953
Nouvelle arrivée
À l'outrance! En avant!
Posts: 9
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Boots
Jul 30, 2015 18:22:11 GMT -5
Post by etranger1953 on Jul 30, 2015 18:22:11 GMT -5
Damn, The issue appears to be far more complex than I had hoped. Well, (lew) where might one find these Mle. 50s? And when they come out what the $$ ball park going to be?
Hm.. sounds like I've got some thinking to do.
As usual, above and beyond fellas. I really do appreciate having this wealth of information from all of you on the forums.
Thanks Again!
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etranger1953
Nouvelle arrivée
À l'outrance! En avant!
Posts: 9
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Boots
Jul 30, 2015 18:46:54 GMT -5
Post by etranger1953 on Jul 30, 2015 18:46:54 GMT -5
Never mind, didn't read close enough, just got off Dehner's website. Now I see what you mean by a pretty penny. Merde. Now I'm more confused than before I posted originally.
Thanks for all the info guys!
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Post by lew on Jul 30, 2015 20:18:35 GMT -5
A pair of the Mle. 52's won't set you back much. Grab a pair of Pataugas from SOF Military in the UK or ASMC.de in Germany (The latter has been excellent despite USPS throwing wrenches into the works.). Palladium might still have the tan ones, but it seems those are being phased out as well.
M43 repros are going to be the best bet for Indo boots, unless you want to go the brodequin and gaiter route (gaiters are horrendous, I think). Personally, I wouldn't even worry about boots for Indo. Just go with the '52's and Pataugas and call it good for now and worry about it after everything else has been taken care of.
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Boots
Jul 31, 2015 9:27:18 GMT -5
Post by Étienne on Jul 31, 2015 9:27:18 GMT -5
I "desperately" need some more pataugas, as my OTAN green ones are about to blow out (plus they're faded almost white). The ones from the Japanese dealer didn't work out, as they kept sending me bills for payment entirely in Japanese, and unfortunately I couldn't translate them in order to pay.
Any luck with the ASMC.de pataugas yet? All I can easily find are the [totally inappropriate] Israeli ones it seems. It seems that most companies (like Palladium) are making fancy pataugas these days...heck, Converse is doing the same with the Chuck Taylor even. ugh
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Post by lew on Jul 31, 2015 12:28:38 GMT -5
USPS trashed the first shipment from ASMC (damaged in transit). I let them know and they sent out another two pairs without a hassle. Very professional thus far, and they have little trouble with English. I'll type up a formal review when I actually have the shoes.
If only I could go back in time and stock up on Palladiums. Oh well.
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Boots
Jul 31, 2015 19:37:58 GMT -5
Post by slehman on Jul 31, 2015 19:37:58 GMT -5
I'm just crushed my double buckle French boots that fit like a glove don't work for Indochine.
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Post by lew on Jul 31, 2015 21:12:22 GMT -5
[Cue "wah wah" sound] This is why we research before making purchases. At least you have the foundation- literally- for an Algeria impression and then have to share my pain and drama with assembling kit for both wars. Yes, excellent.
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Boots
Aug 1, 2015 9:10:26 GMT -5
Post by slehman on Aug 1, 2015 9:10:26 GMT -5
Initial research had them good to go, then e-bay had a buy it now option and to find good boots in an adult size I went with 'he who hesitates is lost' as opposed to 'good things come to those who wait'. Catch-22, but the boots are dead sexy so no regrets. Finally Algeria does hold an interest.
Thanks for all of the great information.
Cheers Steven
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Post by lew on Aug 1, 2015 11:39:59 GMT -5
It's not like they're making them anymore, so the price is only going to go one way. Plus, they really don't make 'em like that anymore (aside from a couple of boot makers). I'll be wearing mine tonight.
If you thought the Indochina War was complicated, you're in for a ride. That's a major part of what keeps me coming back to both conflicts.
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Post by Étienne on Aug 2, 2015 7:23:38 GMT -5
see?! It always comes back to Algeria with Lew... Regarding Palladiums, it's just hard to believe that they would quit making the style we like/use, but of course these days it seems like that kinda thing happens a lot. I'm learning that when I find something that I like that is "perfect," I should buy several so I'll have extras when the first one wears out. Repro WWII US HBT camo uniforms have gone the same way...they're all more expensive now if one can even find a good quality set. I shoulda bought all the ones ATF had in my size when they were $20-30!
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Post by lew on Aug 2, 2015 9:59:07 GMT -5
That's a good policy: Buy in bulk. Then you can sell any excess for a ridiculous mark up once other sources have dried up.
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savoy6
Dans le théâtre de la guerre
Posts: 83
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Post by savoy6 on Sept 20, 2015 18:12:09 GMT -5
yeah...i Fell you Etienne on the paladiums....can't believe they got rid of the baggy OTANs
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Boots
Sept 21, 2015 16:07:00 GMT -5
Post by Étienne on Sept 21, 2015 16:07:00 GMT -5
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savoy6
Dans le théâtre de la guerre
Posts: 83
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Boots
Sept 22, 2015 8:54:29 GMT -5
Post by savoy6 on Sept 22, 2015 8:54:29 GMT -5
Danners are good boots..
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Boots
Oct 18, 2015 13:00:54 GMT -5
Post by Étienne on Oct 18, 2015 13:00:54 GMT -5
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Boots
Oct 18, 2015 13:11:37 GMT -5
Post by Étienne on Oct 18, 2015 13:11:37 GMT -5
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Post by craigtx on Oct 18, 2015 16:18:53 GMT -5
Really... No way are they gonna get that much for them! Where do these people get their prices from??
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Post by Étienne on Oct 18, 2015 17:32:52 GMT -5
I know...they are so crazy! Lew and are were talking about that some time ago when I was in the market for some, and we were saying how $150 was too much. I got a pair that were new but with storage wear and one damaged buckle strap for like $35 shipped!
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Boots
Oct 19, 2015 12:05:23 GMT -5
Post by craigtx on Oct 19, 2015 12:05:23 GMT -5
I agree. The average I see them for on eBay is like $135. Still steep in my book.
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Boots
Oct 19, 2015 14:01:22 GMT -5
Post by lew on Oct 19, 2015 14:01:22 GMT -5
Not a bad price for quality boots, but cheaper ones should still be out there. I've seen Mle. 52's on flea bay for ~$800. Surprising as it may be, they haven't sold in years.
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Post by toussant on Oct 19, 2015 20:58:21 GMT -5
Love my Palladiums- Great for a full day of teaching and a summer full of canoeing! Old gray dogs are a little frayed on the edge binding and well faded into some kind of grayish/green patina, but still going strong since July of 2012. Gotta love 'em ---Toussant
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Post by lew on Oct 20, 2015 18:35:17 GMT -5
They are great shoes. Too bad their marketing department would rather cater to hipsters. Whatever pays the bills, I guess.
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topbreak
Dans le théâtre de la guerre
Posts: 91
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Boots
Dec 8, 2021 9:42:15 GMT -5
lew likes this
Post by topbreak on Dec 8, 2021 9:42:15 GMT -5
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Post by lew on Dec 8, 2021 10:23:13 GMT -5
They were all used well into Algeria until they were replaced by the Mle. 52. Of WPG's offering, the 1912/16 looks the most like the Mle. 1917, with the rivet on the outboard side of the vamp. Pataugas were used just as much by TTA units as TAP units.
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topbreak
Dans le théâtre de la guerre
Posts: 91
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Post by topbreak on Dec 8, 2021 14:38:36 GMT -5
Thanks. Looks like Santa has some boots to buy.
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topbreak
Dans le théâtre de la guerre
Posts: 91
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Boots
Dec 18, 2021 15:48:44 GMT -5
Post by topbreak on Dec 18, 2021 15:48:44 GMT -5
Well, now I have the boots.
Any advice on period appropriate conditioning and care? I've had plenty of experience with shiny side leather, but no real experience with the rough out kind.
As for getting the in the field look, trudging through some mud would probably work.
Hmmm, Manassas Battlefield is close by . . .
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