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Post by hoover on May 14, 2012 12:46:29 GMT -5
Just found an interesting note:
On 22. April 1953 Legionaires of the 5th Co, 2e BEP found a Russian made AK 47 on a dead Viet-Minh near Xieng Khouang in the Plaine of Jarres.
It is the only note of captured AK47 in any reports I found until now.
Hope to find more.
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Post by lew on Oct 2, 2013 8:15:08 GMT -5
I believe that was the first time any western nation had encountered an example of the AK, although I've heard that of Hungary in '56, too.
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Post by hoover on Oct 2, 2013 9:39:13 GMT -5
I wonder where the AK is gone, to the US for evaluations, to France?
Also, who used this? A Chinese advisor? Or even a Russian advisor?
The Russians also supplied GAZ 51 trucks and some modern AA-guns. So maybe there were Russians to advise?
Bye
Frank
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Post by lew on Oct 2, 2013 10:11:49 GMT -5
I know the Chinese didn't even have the AK at that point, so it had to be Russian, if the story holds any water at all. At that point, it was just starting to be issued to a select few Russian units.
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Post by hoover on Oct 3, 2013 4:52:22 GMT -5
Only question by me: Were the Legionnaires right, and was it a AK47, or maybe a SKS45? In 1953 even only a few Russian units were equipped with the AK. But if the description is wrong, why did the mention the Ak47 and the exact spot. So anyone with very good French language knowledge should ask in the French military archive... (So I am out  ) Bye Frank |
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Post by lew on Oct 10, 2013 6:56:24 GMT -5
I'm thinking it was an SKS and not an AK.
The unveiling of the AK to the west in '56 was a pretty big deal, so the idea that this notice was buried and barely even registered doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The SKS wasn't exactly revolutionary at the time.
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Post by hoover on Oct 14, 2013 7:04:00 GMT -5
Yes. And maybe (only my own theory) the mentioned Ak47 could be a mistake after the war, when all the reports were given to the archive.
I am quite sure that a captioned Ak47 in Indochina in 1953 would be of interest for the US of A in that times. And I couldn´t find any notes by the US Army. At this time during the Cold War every new weapons of the Warsaw Pact waas of big interest for the NATO. And of course this would be the case for the new standard weopn of the general WP soldier, too.
So, as I mentioned before, maybe only a wrong term added somewhere in the archive. I would like to see the original note of the French report, so that which was written in 1953 by the French soldiers in INdochina.
Bye
Frank
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Post by lew on Oct 14, 2013 12:14:47 GMT -5
If it is indeed a mistake, perhaps the error was made in translating the report into a second language, probably English. As I'm sure you are well aware, sources of information for the period in English are spotty at best, downright misinformation at worst.
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Post by J.Rullow on Nov 11, 2017 13:34:51 GMT -5
Hi all, those AKs are mentione in the pierre sergant book about the 2BEP.... however I am also a bit suspicious about the fact - SKS seems more likeli to me...
However they mention that those AKs were forwarded to the high command....
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Post by lew on Nov 13, 2017 14:16:35 GMT -5
Thanks for the source.
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Post by rullow on Nov 15, 2017 16:45:20 GMT -5
Hello, well finally a proof  22/04/1953 - 2BEP, Pierre Sergent, page 156 Kalachnikov, 4 chinese made SMG have been captured from elite Vitminh unit and handed over to Salan  |
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Post by craigtx on Nov 15, 2017 20:03:41 GMT -5
Great find!
Craig
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Post by lew on Nov 16, 2017 14:10:23 GMT -5
Thanks for providing the source. Unfortunately, I don't think we are any closer to resolution. The Chinese didn't start producing AKs or SKSs until 1956, and I doubt the Russians would be pushing fresh-off-the-line AKs to Third World insurgents. What if it was an SVT-38/40?
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Post by craigtx on Nov 16, 2017 22:41:32 GMT -5
Interesting thought there Steve. Or maybe Stg-44s?
Craig
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Post by lew on Nov 17, 2017 12:49:26 GMT -5
Never thought of the MP/StG. That would make a lot more sense, and I can see one's appearance SE Asia getting the Legionnaires excited. Some were brought in to the States by US troops serving in Vietnam, so I think this idea is certainly plausible.
I think we can rule out the AK, though.
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Post by rullow on Nov 17, 2017 14:23:17 GMT -5
I think that the main part of the story is CHINESE made... thats certainly what caught their attention... and since they did not mention that it was a brand new never seen before gun, we can rely more on some clone od PPSh or Sudajev.... SKS was one of my thoughts as well but I guess that Lew explained the plausibility of this as well...
Well I never saw a photo of a STG in indochine (till 1954) - probably terrible problems of ammunition supply?
I recall only photo in cca 1954 in Algeria of french troops usinh STG44...
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Post by craigtx on Nov 17, 2017 17:41:12 GMT -5
Ask and ye shall receive... I just happen to have one...  |
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Post by lew on Nov 18, 2017 14:59:33 GMT -5
Craig, you magnificent bastard.
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Post by craigtx on Nov 18, 2017 15:39:09 GMT -5
Rightbackatcha Steve...  |
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Post by lew on Nov 20, 2017 13:01:53 GMT -5
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