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Post by bellumbill on Mar 2, 2011 22:19:22 GMT -5
Bonjour All -
Can some one please give me the lowdown on what the correct enlisted chevrons are for the FICW period? Doesn't matter what branch - I DO know Colo had the Anchor, Legion Grenade, etc., the branch colors, and the general meaning of the chevrons - but I don't know any different details between those worn during the FICW and Algeria or today for that matter.
Any help would be appreciated!
Merci!
Bill K.
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Post by cookie on Mar 3, 2011 13:11:13 GMT -5
Bill,
These were different for all of the many unit types within thr French army at the time. Colonial units, whether parachute or infantry, had a dark blue diamond 'losange' patch which featured a gold coloured 'fouled' anchor in the centre. This was edged with a double line of red. Any NCO rank, such as caporal, Sergent-chef etc was indicated by a tan/gold inverted chevron over the top point of the diamond. Each additional chevron denoting a rank. These were sometimes edged in red thread as well - NOTE some of the earliest losanges post-1945 had no red borders and the rank chevrons themselves were red, but still with the gold anchor. Colonial Artillery was the same design but was a red background with dark blue edging and a gold anchor. Zouaves had a dark blue losange with a gold horizontal crescent and their unit number in the centre, edged in red. Legion had a dark blue losange with green double edging, and a flaming bomb logo in the centre, again, with their rank chevrons inverted at the top in aluminium thread. Other colonial units such as Senegalise, Moroccans, Algerians, all had their own colour variations. Algerians being sky blue with yellow crescent.
The pertinent ones, though, for almost any European impression in Indochina would be the colonial one first mentioned, or the legion one. Have a look at 'losange Mle 45' under 'militaria' on ebay.fr
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Post by bellumbill on Mar 3, 2011 19:10:56 GMT -5
Cookie -
I knew you'd come through! Thanks for the info.
I have looked through the TAP Uniform book at any pics showing French soldiers wearing chevrons. First, there aren't too many, not too different than most troops in any war in the field. At any rate, all the ones that I have seen have NOT had the double border around the anchor or grenade for legion troops (I have not seen any other branches insignia in the book). Are these WWII style?
Merci!
Bill
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Post by cookie on Mar 4, 2011 18:41:59 GMT -5
Bill,
Yes, the ones without the double edging of red are either field made in Indochina or a from the immediate post-WWII period, say 1945-46. After 1946 the losange mle 45-46 was introduced and standardised. This was the kind that featured the edging. I have several in my collection that are made from sewing together a losange and a seperate set of chevrons, usually with a cloth loop attached at the top rear to put into a pocket button hole. Both kinds were prevalent, but again, not worn in great numbers in the field.
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Post by bellumbill on Mar 5, 2011 8:33:29 GMT -5
Bill, Yes, the ones without the double edging of red are either field made in Indochina or a from the immediate post-WWII period, say 1945-46. After 1946 the losange mle 45-46 was introduced and standardised. This was the kind that featured the edging. I have several in my collection that are made from sewing together a losange and a seperate set of chevrons, usually with a cloth loop attached at the top rear to put into a pocket button hole. Both kinds were prevalent, but again, not worn in great numbers in the field. Ah, ok, NOW I get it - Again, knew I could count on you! Hate to be presumptuous, but I would love to see some photos of the various examples you have in your collection if and when you get a chance. Merci Beaucoup!! Bill K. Bill K. |
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Post by bellumbill on Mar 8, 2011 16:56:20 GMT -5
Cookie - Here are the two sets of chevrons I own, front and back. Are these good for the FICW? Why does one set have two bands around the fouled anchor and three around the "1"?   Best, Bill |
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Post by marsouin on Mar 9, 2011 13:48:18 GMT -5
2 bands: unit created on the metropolitan territory.
3 bands: unit created outside the metropolitan territory;i.e. ex-colonies (Africa,Indochina...)
The left one is for a senior sergeant colonial infantry (Sergent-Chef infantrie de marine) and the right one is for the 1er Regiment de Chasseurs Parachutistes (created in North Africa)...
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Post by cookie on Mar 13, 2011 15:12:35 GMT -5
You learn something new every day...
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sapper
Nouvelle arrivée
Posts: 11 
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Post by sapper on Dec 11, 2014 0:56:41 GMT -5
When did the legion start wearing the slip on type rank badges?
Sapper
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Post by lew on Dec 20, 2014 9:24:22 GMT -5
The metal chevrons are the Mle. 52 and appeared in Indo that year with all types of units. The embroidered cloth epaulets are the Mle. 45 and were used throughout Indo. The metal Mle. 52 were used through the end of that war, through Algeria and beyond. NCO's and enlisted ranks more commonly wore the Mle. 45 losange (diamond unit identifier with accompanying rank chevrons) in both conflicts. There is a picture in Les Paras Français of a sergent (sergent-chef?) with a Mle. 52 chevron affixed to the front of his casquette Bigeard.
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Post by craigtx on Dec 20, 2014 9:57:37 GMT -5
Steve, I've seen some caporal and caporal-chef metal chevrons that have holes in them to be sewn on. I'm not sure of the size of them as the photos are of just the chevrons and nothing shown for scale. Any idea of if they would be Indo or Algerie appropriate?
Craig
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Post by lew on Jan 15, 2015 9:32:17 GMT -5
I had a thought regarding those flat metal chevrons (i.e. not the Mle. 52 that slides over the epaulet) with the holes punched in them. I have seen them mounted on souvenir boards, but I wonder if they were originally intended for helmets. The angle of the chevrons is more acute than the Mle. 45 losange de bras or the Mle. 52 enlisted chevrons. If these "mystery" chevrons were mounted on a helmet and made to conform to the curvature, the angle would flatten out some when viewed head-on and would look like a chevron should.
I have no reason to believe they were widely issued, and, if rank markings were applied to a helmet at all (very rarely), they were typically done so with paint and were kept small. I've only seen pictures of a captain and a lieutenant doing this.
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Post by craigtx on Jan 16, 2015 8:58:39 GMT -5
That would seem to make sense. They are a curiosity. Of course not enough of a curiosity for me to fork over money for them.
Craig
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Post by lew on Jan 16, 2015 13:22:32 GMT -5
Found it: the sheet metal chevrons with the holes at the corners are for the pith helmet of the tropical uniform, which was well on its way out in the '50's.
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Post by craigtx on Jan 17, 2015 21:50:19 GMT -5
Now that makes sense! Thanks for findin' that Steve!
Craig
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Post by Étienne on Mar 25, 2015 16:09:11 GMT -5
Wow...great info, thanks guys!
However, y'all are causing me to stalk Ebay France now, and to learn more French words so I know what I'm looking at and/or buying. Oh mon dieu...
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Post by lew on Mar 25, 2015 16:50:43 GMT -5
Have Google Translate on standby. I've found French to be really easy to pick up, at least reading and writing.
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Post by Étienne on Mar 25, 2015 17:12:06 GMT -5
I've actually got it open right now, as I'm trying to translate part of a Militaria magazine article!
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