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Post by Legion Etrangere on Sept 8, 2009 9:42:56 GMT -5
Cookie (and all),
I saw the MILITARIA mag (you sent) display of the 3e BCCP para wearing the maroon beret with para badge for the RC4 battles - is this correct? Or would it have been the black beret?
Mick
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Post by cookie on Sept 11, 2009 7:45:29 GMT -5
At that time It would depend very much on the particular unit and the service history of the individual. If the soldier had come from France recently he would probably have worn a red/maroon beret, as they were what was being newly issued, as per regulations. Some soldiers who had been in country for a while would have had black berets, as the commandoes and paras had up until 51/52, when they changed to red/maroon.
For a comparison, Marcel Bigeard is wearing a black beret with TAP para badge, at a presentation parade in 1950 as well. It would appear that units changed to the red ones at varying stages, which of course are not well documented.
For up until mid 1950 I would go with a black beret, from then on a red one.
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Post by soldatsoucy1 on Sept 13, 2009 18:42:54 GMT -5
Ah, thanks Cookie. Mick and i had sort of determined that the maroon or red beret was later but we werent quite sure if it was an in country addition or not...and where the black beret fit it. Cool to have that double confirmation on these types of things!
Doc
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Post by cookie on Sept 14, 2009 10:17:08 GMT -5
To further muddy the water, here is a para from 1953...  |
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Post by Legion Etrangere on Sept 15, 2009 10:11:09 GMT -5
you muddied the water!!!!!!!!! ;D
Interesting pic ... further testament to the equipment and uniform privations suffered by the French in the war.
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Post by marsouin on Nov 21, 2009 13:59:19 GMT -5
*The wear of the beret "amarante" (or red) was officialised for the Parachutistes Coloniaux on 02d February 1948 after the french SAS (who already had the red beret from 25th October 1946 on) were incorporated in the troupes coloniales.
*The metro (metropolitan) paras first had a dark blue/black beret and then in 1947 the light blue beret
*The green beret was first adopted by the 2e BEP when arriving in Indochina (12.11.1948)-Beret were bought in Paris-despite the total opposition of the Hierarchy of the Legion Etrangere (Lt Muelle did get several days of arrest for landing in Indochina with his Beret vert).Then the garrison cap was worn instead until the end of 1952 when the BEPs will go back to the beret (in total opposition with the Legion High Hierarchy)....The green beret was definitely officialised in September 1957.
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Post by Legion Etrangere on Nov 21, 2009 16:58:58 GMT -5
M:
Our 3e BCCP group has been wearing a black beret for some time now. Are you saying the red / maroon beret is correct?
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Post by marsouin on Nov 21, 2009 17:30:48 GMT -5
Yes,definitely!!!
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Post by cookie on Nov 22, 2009 7:16:52 GMT -5
But their Vietnamese guys should wear a black beret with the TAP badge? About as clear as mud this GCCP/BCCP stuff... !  I'll stick to 6e BPC... |
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Post by marsouin on Nov 22, 2009 8:56:53 GMT -5
Given the pic,I'd rather say a guy belonging to a Commando but coming from the airborne...
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Post by cookie on Nov 22, 2009 14:45:10 GMT -5
No, forget the photo, would Vietnamese members of the 3e BCCP/GCCP have worn a black beret or a red one?
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Post by marsouin on Nov 22, 2009 15:00:31 GMT -5
Red beret...
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Post by Legion Etrangere on Nov 22, 2009 18:14:48 GMT -5
But their Vietnamese guys should wear a black beret with the TAP badge?
About as clear as mud this GCCP/BCCP stuff... !
I'll stick to 6e BPC... I busted a gut over this one!!!  Cookie, thats exactley how we have felt: there are SO many BCCPs with each BCCP wearing a different uniform, during a different battle. Its incredible!
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Post by Legion Etrangere on Nov 22, 2009 18:16:20 GMT -5
Then I take it the uniformity should be:
French personnel 3e BCCP: red beret
Viet personnel 3e BCCP: red beret
Viet personnel serving in 3e compagnie, 3e BCCP: black?
If its red, that simplifies everything.........
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Post by marsouin on Nov 22, 2009 19:11:10 GMT -5
All the personnel serving in the BCCP wear the red beret.
BCCP are all colonial units hence the red color.
In 1950 the designation BCCP (Bataillon Colonial de Commandos Parachutistes) was changed to GCCP (Groupement Colonial de Commandos Parachutistes) and then in 1951 it was changed again to BPC (Bataillon de Parachutistes Coloniaux).
-In 1958,France having no colonies anymore,the designation will then be the actual one : RPIMA (Regiment Parachutiste d'Infanterie de Marine)-
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Post by Legion Etrangere on Nov 23, 2009 17:51:24 GMT -5
We got it!
One of our members purchased the Bondroit book on eBay for less than $40 USD! We've already begun to take a close look at the photos and realize that the uniformity for BCCP is in stark contrast to the Legion Para's of 1er BEP.
We immediately promoted our new member to Caporal for his diligence and persistence in finding this book!
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Cookie, thats exactley how we have felt: there are SO many BCCPs with each BCCP wearing a different uniform, during a different battle. Its incredible!