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Post by lt13demi on Nov 23, 2008 12:00:05 GMT -5
Mes amis! Here is a pic of a pair of pouches that I have been led to believe are TAP 50, M-1 carbine mag pouches. They will hold 4, 15 round carbine mag pouches; 2 in each pocket. i144.photobucket.com/albums/r174/lt13demi/100_1141.jpgI can find no date on them. Or even French military marks. The have the M-1910 USGI wire hanger on top as well as the Brit P37/P44 type wire hangers on the back of the pouches. They remind me of Isreali gear. But they are manufactured out of French type canvas webbing as is the rest of TAP 50 gear encountered. I have never seen any contemporaty photos of these pouches in use. All contemporary pics I have seen show personnel in theatre using the typical USGI M-1 mag pouches. For example on the stock of their carbines, on their belt, etc. If I can find the source again, I was led to believe they were produced beginning in 1954.... This would probably make them a bit late for Indochine, unless they were theatre made products. No acceptance marks may explain them as theatre production. Anybody seen these pouches before?  Are they more Algerian era??? Merci! Renault |
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Post by Turner on Nov 23, 2008 18:34:01 GMT -5
I've never seen a pouch like that. I don't see the need for a special carbine mag pouch, as these fit well into the TAP 1950 (/53) rifle ammo pouches (2 per compartment -> 4 mags per pouch). So maybe it is something experimental? From the first look I also thought that it might be Israelian, especially as with TAP 1950 the French got rid of the P37/44 wire belt hooks (not the 1910 hanger!). What about a late British Pattern 1944 kind of thing?  Regards, Turner |
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Post by lt13demi on Nov 23, 2008 19:11:59 GMT -5
You got me? ? They appear to be made out of that typical late era (1953) French canvas. Just like a lot of the TAP 50 stuff.... I wonder if they could be some kind of Brit 58 stuff??? But there isn't a mark anywhere on them.... Renault |
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Post by grog on Nov 23, 2008 19:17:03 GMT -5
Taking the hooks on the back into consideration, I also wonder if they might not be British. They could be theater made, or an official limited run of mag pouches for the M1 Carbine. From what I've read the Brits used the M1 in the Malayan campaign (1948-60). Not sure in what quantities they used them though.
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Post by grog on Nov 23, 2008 19:23:27 GMT -5
OK. Now I'm even more convinced they might be British 44 pattern. I checked the Gordon book on Uniforms (for some reason he has this equipment in the uniform volume) and while there were no pics of these pouches, the color is dead on and everything for the 44 Pattern that would go on the belt (pistol case, bino case, pistol ammo pouch, etc) has the hooks for both attaching directly to the belt or to the eyelets like these pouches.
I would see no reason not to use them for FIC.
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Post by oggy on Nov 24, 2008 5:30:08 GMT -5
They may not be Brit TBH - the metalwork is wrong, and the webbing texture seems off. The Illustration I have of a Malayan Scouts Officer armed with an M1shows seperate Mag compartments
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Post by grog on Nov 24, 2008 6:03:10 GMT -5
They may not be Brit TBH - the metalwork is wrong, and the webbing texture seems off. The Illustration I have of a Malayan Scouts Officer armed with an M1shows seperate Mag compartments I'll accept that. The pics I've been looking at aren't close ups, and I have never taken a close look at P44 webbing before on the rare occasion that I have seen it in person. Also, when I went back and looked last night, I noticed that all the P44 in the pics had tab closures, not snaps like the M1 pouch. |
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Post by oggy on Nov 24, 2008 9:09:59 GMT -5
Grog - on Brit 44, the Hanger is made of a Bronze coloured metal, rather like some items of late war US webbing, the press studs should be Brass and the rear of the Grommet appears to have a too large backing plate......
I will concede that the 37 fixings look close to 44 clips.....This is possibly a transitional item?
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Post by sgtjeanvaljean on Nov 24, 2008 10:01:52 GMT -5
Lt. Take a good look at the pouches and how they are made. I belive you would find a M-35 R hanging under these pouches with four clips in them.
Sgt. Valjean
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Post by lt13demi on Nov 24, 2008 17:30:11 GMT -5
But that would make them awefully cumbersome wouldn't it? ? Renault |
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Post by oggy on Nov 25, 2008 2:56:07 GMT -5
Lt. Take a good look at the pouches and how they are made. I belive you would find a M-35 R hanging under these pouches with four clips in them. Sgt. Valjean Call me thick, but what's an M-35R? |
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Post by lt13demi on Nov 25, 2008 8:34:29 GMT -5
I believe he's refering to the M 1935 French Musette bag (that also had the FM24/29 mag pouches on them). But for the life of me I do not know how one would connect this bag to these pouches!!!!! Enlighten us Sergent, svp!!!!!!  Renault |
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Post by oggy on Nov 25, 2008 20:10:11 GMT -5
Ahhhhhh, cheers Renault..... I agree there.
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Post by oggy on Nov 27, 2008 3:21:51 GMT -5
Just a thought - Canadian?
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Post by lt13demi on Nov 27, 2008 9:52:29 GMT -5
Certainly possible........ Intersting for sure..... Something in the back of my mind keeps saying Israeli....... Guess it's back to the investigation? Thanks to you all! Renault |
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Post by lt13demi on Nov 27, 2008 10:33:29 GMT -5
Oggy!!!!! Now that you mention it, I did receive one from a collector in Canada!!!!! Hmmmm? ? Well I posted an inquiry on the WWII forum the majority of us belong to as well. We'll see what pops up! Renault |
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Post by oggy on Nov 27, 2008 16:26:59 GMT -5
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Post by indochina on Nov 29, 2008 16:14:07 GMT -5
Perhaps these pouches are Portugese.
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Post by oggy on Nov 30, 2008 9:20:06 GMT -5
Could very well be, any pics of the system?
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Post by lt13demi on Dec 3, 2008 18:20:07 GMT -5
That's a good an answer as I've heard so far!!!!!!!
Merci!
Renault
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Post by indochina on Jan 1, 2009 16:39:27 GMT -5
Looks Portugese...
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Post by oggy on Jan 1, 2009 19:56:36 GMT -5
Again, any pics of the kit in use?
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Post by marsouin on Nov 19, 2009 20:02:10 GMT -5
I'd say english pattern 44 definitely...
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Post by indochina on Feb 6, 2010 20:24:33 GMT -5
I have not seen these pouches as french, could they be portuageuse?
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Post by Legion Etrangere on Feb 6, 2010 22:08:02 GMT -5
interesting ... I think someone mentioned portuguese before (I could be wrong). To be honest, I really think they look like P-44 British style pouches, although I think someone shot that down as well...
I have never seen Bob bring these pouches out to an event before but the photos are clear, I wonder just what they are and where they were made....
Mick
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Post by fireman on Feb 13, 2017 21:14:52 GMT -5
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Post by rullow on Feb 15, 2017 4:34:22 GMT -5
yep... I ve been also thinking about greeks... but french defenitely not... the French looks like standard US M1 carbine pouches just with a D ring riveted on from the back side... I ve seen already US pouches with added D ring and also new french production - also with a D ring - just the canvas was different... + the local indochina made ones - but thats another story....   Jakub |
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Post by lew on Feb 15, 2017 13:15:17 GMT -5
And that's exactly it. I have one as part of my Portuguese Commandos Especiais kit. |
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Are they more Algerian era???
