M47 Jackets

[lt13demi]

I know this place is usually the bane of reenactors, but Sportsman's Guide has 2, M47 Jackets on sale (large size currently in stock) for $19.95! I've ordered 6 and they are all early 50's dated!!!!! Last batch were dated 1952!

NOW we need to find a source for M47 trousers!!!!!! I'm down to one pair!!!!!

Renault

[grog]

I'd love to get one, but would need an XL. It's not that big a deal as I'm probably going to wear US camo most of the time anyway.

As for Sportsman's Guide, I'm waiting for them to get in more of the double buckle boots. They have them listed, but when I tried to get a pair it says they are out of stock until the middle of December. Guess that will have to be one of my Christmas presents to myself.

[lt13demi]

I waiting to hear back from a contact in Arizona that might have some M47 trousers in human sizes!!!!! I know he still has some of the M47 Tenue de khaki fonce d'saut sets available. I picked up a set from him in June and it fits!!!!!

I believe these were a theatre made uniform. Probably in Hanoi....

Renault

[Legion Etrangere]

Renault,

That seems to be the problem ... human sizes!!!! :-) Hopefully your source will be a good one.

I am hoping (maybe against hope) to see if there is a way to reproduce the M47s locally here in Houston at a moderate price, similar to the price of HBTs produced by ATF.

/martini/

[legionnaire]

Bonsoir:

Can you tell me what the French size is stamped in the size Large Sportsmans Guide Jackets.

Merci,

Legionaire

[lt13demi]

Yes, I've receive 2 different sizes in the shipments I've received.

26 which appear to be around a 40-42 Regular

and 46 which appear to be around a 44-46 regular-long (if the're exist such a size).

I usually wear a 44 regular, I can get in the 26's but they are a bit short in the body and sleeve. The 46 fits dead on, with a bit of room to spare. It's a crap shoot ordering them. I've ordered 3 different times and the jackets were received as follows;

1st order = 2 ea. 26's

2nd order = 2 ea. 46's

3rd order = 1 ea. 26, 1 ea. 46

You really can't pass up the price. The latest date on any of the ones I've received was 1955!

Bonne chance!

Renault

[oggy]

Do they have the Internal Skirt Pockets?

[ausdig]

Luckily M47's are still plentifull, means cheap collecting as i like to get each type made.

[lt13demi]

Some do!

Like I said it's a crap shoot on what you'll get....

I just wish I could find the trousers!!!!!! I'm down to one pair.

Renault

[oggy]

I'm looking for some in a manly size........

[lt13demi]

I picked up a "49" off of e-bay. I'd say it is a 46-48" regular. I use it for OPFOR as I can wear the required body protection under it.

So they are out there you judt gotta hunt 'em up....

Renault

[ausdig]

Know a place in France that sells them if thats any use ? Luckily can fit in the less manly sizes still. It is a crap shoot which type you get re pockets, very few dealers appreciate the differences.

[lt13demi]

Thanks,,,,,, I've got a feeling that trousers are gonna show again here just like the jackets did. I can just feel it!!!!

Then again maybe it's just gas........ ;D

The wife seems to think I have an over-abundance!

Renault

[legionnaire]

Merci Renault. I will need to give SG a try. I am a 44 Reg also.

Can anyone post a list of French sizes and their US equivalents?

Example: Jackets I have seen are 46, 47, 49

Shirts have different sizes like L3.

Trousers have something different.

Merci

Legionaire

[lt13demi]

Legionnaire,

You should be able to fit the 46 & 49. The 49 being a bit big but not too unberarable. 46 should be perfect for you.

The L4 should also fit you well. The L3 is a bit tighter and shorter sleeved.

I hope this helps...

Renault

[legionnaire]

Encore merci Renault.

Legionaire

[Kenneth]

I don't think that last post was really about M47 jackets, but this one is, if you thought it was.

I have two M47 jackets, the later version with external side pockets. I didn't get them from Sportsman's Guide, though, but from two different places on eBay. Both were new, too, as were the trousers I also got from various vendors. The jackets, however, were short in the sleeves, which has always been a problem for me, even in the army. So, I lengthened them about 1.5 inches, which was sufficient. The jackets were size 46, which seems to have been the largest size under the old system. Current uniforms apparently are available in much larger sizes, which is interesting.

[lew]

Post removed and guest banned.

[Kenneth]

As a follow-up to my post about sizing, one theory is that the uniforms that fit normal-sized people, whatever that might be, were used up first, leaving the more odder sizes behind, which is what we have to choose from today--if any. But like I mentioned before, the fatigues that I was issued in the army were definitely on the short side, both in the arms and the legs. The greens and khakis fit okay, though.

Another element is that uniforms in most armies are expected to be issued to men in the twenties and thirties, not slightly overweight men in their 50s. Likewise, the style is sometimes for the uniform to be trim fitting, too, not baggy. Sometimes uniforms ended up being a little too short, too, presumably because of shrinkage, at least for cotton garments. That is noticeable for German tropical jackets. The British issued khaki jackets (the pre-war cotton khaki service dress jackets) oversized, so they would fit when they shrank in the laundry.

On the subject of khaki jackets, I happened to see a video of Foreign Legion troops marching as on parade wearing what must have been pre-war khaki tunics or jackets, worn with the collar open and with a shirt and tie underneath. It was almost certainly post-war, given that they were wearing neckties. It was black and white, so can't comment on the color of the tie. They were wearing sashes, too. One part showed them marching back inside the barracks at Sidi bel Abbes. And there were American half-tracks or scout cars lined up inside, clearly indicating the period as early postwar. I have seen at least one photo of a unit marching and the men (and officers) wearing three types of uniforms (pre-war officer's, pre-war other ranks, and battledress) but no sashes that I recall. I wonder how long the pre-war uniform articles lasted?

[craigtx]

Not sure about the ties. They were most likely khaki (as were US ties) or green (green was worn after 1946). As for the sash, the la ceinture de tradition, is blue. The sash is worn for parade dress.

[Kenneth]

Well, like I said, it is unfortunate that it was in black and white. Also unfortunately, I was not able to find that particular video again, nor a very similar video from roughly the same period. Both were in Algeria, however, and from that period between the war and when everything fell apart in the 1950s. I rather doubt that the same combination of uniform articles would have been seen in Indochina. Both film were of troops marching as for a parade (or march past). I might also note that the distinctive slow march of the Legion may not go back that far, judging from older films, but the flourishing of horns in the band certainly does.

It goes without saying that several uniform articles rarely show up in photos and even more rarely in film, that is, to the extent that positive identification can be made, and naturally with most things being in black and white, that doesn't help. But a careful reading of some descriptions here and there suggests that different units may have done things a little differently or may have had things other units did not have. All of this is what makes it interesting.

[topbreak]

A quick question. Mle 47 jackets apparently come in two basic variants. The earlier version has internal (innies?) skirt pockets, while the later variant referred to as the Mle 47/52 has external (outties?) pockets. The jacket I have has external pockets and a 1953 date stamp. Could this pattern have been used in Indochina?

[lew]

It was used in the closing days of Indochina, i.e. Dien Bien Phu, GM 100, Operation Voutour, et al... I have not seen any worn during the Battle at Na San 11/23-12/2/52, but they start showing up in 1953.

[topbreak]

Thank you. Makes sense actually, though one can never assume.

[Kenneth]

Here's another question: Would recruits to the Legion have been issued everything at the time they joined, in Sidi bel Abbes, at some point during their initial training, or would they have been issued additional items in Indochina, if that's where they were sent? I'm speaking of post-war only. By that time, with possibly some exceptions, I don't know of any Indochina specific uniform items, if indeed there ever were any. They presumably would have been issued with new patterns as they were introduced, at least as they became available in the system. The post-war period in Indochina lasted almost 8 or 9 years, with another 8 years after that for Algeria. The 1960s must have been difficult for the French Army.

[craigtx]

To my knowledge, there were no Indo specific items. There would be geographic specific items tropical, cold weather etc. But nothing to my knowledge for a specific location.