|
|
Post by Legion Etrangere on Jul 20, 2009 12:43:35 GMT -5
woodard,
I took your advice and set up a training section for reenacting. Guys, feel free to post your advice, suggestions, ideas and military links about tactical training within the reenacting hobby.
|
|
|
|
Post by sgtjeanvaljean on Jul 20, 2009 17:23:21 GMT -5
Mick, this one I really like.
V
|
|
|
|
Post by Legion Etrangere on Jul 20, 2009 20:14:38 GMT -5
sgtjeanvaljean, We figured this would be a great way for those who have lots of field expertise to share it with the membership on the forum. Feel free to share any knowledge you have from your time in US Army. I, on the other hand, was "chairborne" in the military and therefore a REMF and can wax on eloquently about the structure and seating capacity of a Chair, Grey, U.S. Army, steel, 1 each. Feel free to post questions, ideas, background experience as you wish. 
|
|
|
|
Post by woodard on Jul 21, 2009 11:17:03 GMT -5
I suppose a good place to start would be to ask if anyone has access to period French training materials. I'm sure the fundamentals of fire and maneuver are the same, but the specifics change from time to time and unit to unit. Even during my time as a reservist the "right" way to do things changed completely due to lessons learned overseas, and other units did things slightly differently. One idea might be to write up an "SOP". We've all heard the term, but many units actually have a rather large written document that covers what to do in any given situation. While I doubt French units were doing this at the time, it might give reenactors at home something to refer back to (ahh, reenacting homework!). At the very least a translation of the pertinent parts of the manual would be good to have. A sample Army SOP, pretty much straight from the manual. www.armystudyguide.com/content/useful_files/SOPs_Policy_Letters/infantry-platoon-tactical.shtml |
|
|
|
Post by lt13demi on Jul 29, 2009 11:05:32 GMT -5
For starters small unit tactics (which I would think would fit our reenacting community here because of the size of our squads) is a very broad topic to try to cover, generically. There are so many different scenarios you can place yourself in. Best way to conduct this is to take it one scenario at a time. A little knowledge from "the book" is very handy to lay out the groundwork for your conduct in tactical situations. There are many available from many nations to choose from. As stated the French copy would be the one we are interested in. BUT,,,,,,, one thing you learn is to utilize what you read, adapt it to your empirical knowledge from the field, and modify it to meet your demands. "If you live your learn, if you learn you live" is a very famous quote from a Indochine Legion vet! The enemy has access to the same training information you have. You do not want to make yourself too predicable to your enemy. Make it a guessing game for them. And then again utilize your "good" habits to your advantage. Make the enemy think, "we don't wanna try that as we know what the consequenses will be!". The one rule of thumb I always try to remember is NEVER underestimate your enemy. But then again they are not supermen they just know how to do things to their advantage as well. Look a insurgent warfare for example. The only thing that has changed historically, is technology. But the ideals behind it haven't changed really since Roman times or even before. Home turf advantage, knowledge of the locals, knowledge of the terrain, and the ability to blend in with their surroundings. These are just for starters. It a bad case for the good guys not knowing who the bad guys are. But as we learned this can be overcome. Remember Bigeard in Algeria?  ? Problem is colateral damage. I think there was another thread on this board hypothosizing if the French commando units might have employed the "winning of hearts and minds" philosophy (similar to othe American SF doctrine) in Indochina, things MAY have gone better for the French..... In many cases it's a war of attrition for the insurgents, and they are not going to pull stupid stunts, expend valuable resources ot manpower needlessly. It took Giap several years to figure this out and then he got really good at it. I think proper training in tactics against an enemy begins with a minimal cultural study of who and what you're up against. And not that funky "Buck toothed, coke bottle bottom glasses" propanganda that was dished out in WWII. That was mean't to vilify and dehumanize an enemy so the average Joe wouldn't have the problem of busting a cap on someone "less human" than he was! This is just something to get things started...... Renault |
|
|
|
Post by Legion Etrangere on Jul 29, 2009 12:07:04 GMT -5
Renault, I agree with you that it was a war of attrition. The Vietnamese Communists adopted Mao Tse Tungs long-term revolutionary warfare as a military doctrine: www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/1937/guerrilla-warfare/I found it interesting that the Vietminh operated under the guerilla doctrine from 1948-52 winning a large number of engagements, but when they adopted conventional tactics [ 1952-53 ] they were soundly beaten by De Lattre during the '52 Delta campaign. Giap went back to the drawing board and re-adopted the guerilla doctrine and the VM melted backinto the underbrush only re-adopting conventional tactics for DBP.
|
|
savoy6
Dans le théâtre de la guerre
Posts: 83
|
Post by savoy6 on Oct 16, 2010 14:50:56 GMT -5
does anyone have any links for basic military courtesy,individual drill,saluting,etc. within the legion during this time period.....all i have to go on are bits and pieces in movies like section 317...lol..
|
|
|
|
Post by cookie on Oct 16, 2010 15:25:54 GMT -5
Section 317 wasn't about the Legion. The Legion has very different traditions and styles of parade (ie singing) to that of the French Army. I also assume that the diverse nature of the French Colonial Army in Indochina would also have had a very cosmopolitan approach to such things.
|
|
savoy6
Dans le théâtre de la guerre
Posts: 83
|
Post by savoy6 on Oct 16, 2010 15:37:08 GMT -5
well i meant just the basics like saluting ,manual of arms drill commands,etc.....sorry,it was because of that diversity i wasn't sure of even where to begin...
|
|
|
|
Post by Legion Etrangere on Oct 18, 2010 18:37:44 GMT -5
Savoy6,
I will upload the drill and ceremonial standards on the Legion Etrangere website. Give me about a week and I will have those for you.
|
|
savoy6
Dans le théâtre de la guerre
Posts: 83
|
Post by savoy6 on Oct 21, 2010 1:32:51 GMT -5
thank you...i appreciate it
|
|
|
|
Post by bazeille on Aug 1, 2012 9:39:43 GMT -5
This is a great thread! My WWII reenacting unit s virtually the only US unit in my area to use WWII small unit tactics at our events. One of our members is the US Army historian for the Transportation Corps, and during the course of his research he asked all the WII combat vets he could find "We have the training manuals. What did you do differently in combat?" Then he incorporated their answers into our unit training guide. Before every tactical, we have drills on patrol formations, responses to contact, etc.
Initially, I thought this was somewhat of a pain. But after just one or two events, I saw that it made a BIG difference. It is much more of a learning experience, and I feel like I have more insight into what WWII soldiers experienced; and it makes it events more interesting. On a number of occasions I have fallen in with other units at events mine was not participating in. Usually they do not practice the correct tactics. Everyone just sort of heads to the woods and starts shooting when they encounter the enemy. While my worst tactical is better than my best day in the mundane world, I really miss my unit and I seem to get much less out of the event when it has a "paintball" approach.
Some people don't like the training, and it's not unusual for guys who have fallen in with us to wander away from the drills; or to suddenly vanish from the formation and do their own thing once the event starts.
A local German unit also practices WWII tactics, and they use us as training aids for their guys. I absolutely LOVE to participate in their training exercises. Their training NCO will follow the action and if he feels it necessary he will stop everything and critique his squad leaders.
When we "fight" these guys, it is always an upstanding experience! Tactics definitely matter!
|
|
? Problem is colateral damage. I think there was another thread on this board hypothosizing if the French commando units might have employed the "winning of hearts and minds" philosophy (similar to othe American SF doctrine) in Indochina, things MAY have gone better for the French.....
