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Post by Legion Etrangere on Jul 2, 2009 17:01:44 GMT -5
We created this specific board, "GETTING STARTED: New reenactor questions and answers" as a way to answer specific questions new FICW reenactors may have about the hobby, specifically: - questions / answers about weapons safety.
- what do I buy first?
- where can I find a unit to join?
- how do I ...?
- how can I ... ?
[/i] [/li][/ul] We recognize that in other era's - especially Civil War and WWII, new reenactors are lambasted, 'flamed' or ridiculed for asking even the most basic questions when they have joined the hobby. Most of us understand this as we come from a variety of different era's or represent other era's in the hobby and went through this when we joined. We've noticed that on the larger forums, "newbies" are given the same stock answer by many "veteran reenactors" with the obligatory, "we've answered that question years ago - go look it up in the archives." Some new reenactors are driven off the forums all together simply for asking the wrong question and subsequently, leave the hobby frustrated. A Reenactor in New York state [ who is a professional statistician ] made the point, that based upon his research - nearly 50% of new reenactors who take the first step and join the hobby, eventually leave after 6 months due to political infighting or personal attacks.We want you - the new reenactor - to know that FICW draws a more professional, dedicated reenactor, one who treats the authenticity and historicity of this conflict with respect and honor and realizes that new reenactors to our hobby simply want answers to basic questions. So ... that having been said, we welcome you aboard our forum. We are a like-minded group ... where there is no rank, no bluster, no bull ... just interested reenactors [ and a few beers here and there ]. Feel free to ask any question you have. The only bad question is one not asked... ;D Regards,
Mick Stewart
French Indo-china War Forum Moderator
nom de guerre: "Legionnaire Martini" |
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Post by lt13demi on Jul 2, 2009 21:20:05 GMT -5
Excellent sub-catagory Martini! For that I exalt you one point! ;D
Well done!!!
To any of the newbies out there, do not be afraid to post a question here. If you are really too shy, send somebody on the forum a personal message. Heck, we all learn something new off this forum every day!
Renault.
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Post by oggy on Jul 4, 2009 4:39:23 GMT -5
I agree with that Renault - we all don't bite...honest!
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Post by Legion Etrangere on Jul 19, 2009 15:09:31 GMT -5
Some Practical Reenacting Tips
By LTCOL Lou Brown USA Ret This article by LTC Lou Brown is reprinted from Vol. 4 Issue 4 of "Der Zug", the newsletter of a Grossdeutschland re-enactment unit in the Eastern United States. The advice it gives applies equally to Canadian re-enactors Most reenactors are civilians who have never served in the military. For that reason, there are some fundamental things, common to almost all militaries, to which they have never been introduced. Indeed, one of the largest tasks faced in "basic training" is to take civilian habits out of the potential soldier. (As society becomes more "free", this becomes even harder because the norms of the military and what is usual in society tend to become even farther apart.) One of those things constantly reinforced in basic military training is the proper wear of the uniform and personal appearance. Good units care how they look and exercise considerable effort to ensure that their personnel meet established standards. They take especial pride in ensuring the "little things" are also looked after. One of the measures of a good unit is how its soldiers look, especially whey they are not under close supervision. What follows are some practical tips, adopted from my own military experience and combined with (actual WW II) uniform practices, which will help (re-enactors) better project the image of a solid, well-trained, and motivated unit. Headgear is always worn outdoors. One of the hardest things to teach a recruit is remembering to put on his cap when going outdoors. When you leave the billets or your tent at a reenactment, be sure you have the proper headgear, that it is properly worn, and that it is removed indoors (except when "under arms" -- soldiers on official business who are armed do not uncover upon entering a building.) Items are worn, never carried. If worn, they are worn properly. Soldiers don't carry overcoats, raincoats, etc., over their arm -- the item is either worn or left behind (except, of course, as part of the field equipment). All items are worn properly -- all buttons are buttoned, snaps done, etc. Nothing is less military looking than someone walking around with his blouse unbuttoned, or the cuff slits "flapping about" because he failed to ensure they were buttoned. While many might think that such things are macho-looking, good soldiers detest casual sloppiness; buttons are meant to be buttoned, and when they are not, it offends the good soldier's sense of "natural order." Complete uniforms are always worn. This is the corollary to the above, not the same thing. Everything can be worn correctly, and the uniform still not be complete. While most re-enactors get the field uniform correct, few get the German soldiers' other forms of dress right. (This is true for Canadians as well - off duty, Canadian troops often wore black shoes in lieu of ankle boots and gaiters, and after 1943 a black tie and khaki shirt were common additions to the basic battle dress. Waistbelts were apparently NOT worn when off duty or walking out, and certainly not with bayonets. As well, Coloured Field Service Caps/Glengarries were permitted to be worn, though being private purchase pieces, may not have been as common as berets or tams.) ...this was only done in relatively secure areas -- otherwise, the duty uniform was worn -- but this would be entirely appropriate for wear in the cantonment area during non-battle times at reenactments. Soldiers generally shave once a day. Good soldiers do not appear unshaven. Units ensure that soldiers maintain cleanliness at all times as a matter of preserving health; part of that routine is a daily shave. While no one would have expected the soldier to shave while bullets were flying, part of the "after operations" cleanup would have been a return to normal standards. Again, while some folks would find the gruff, unshaven look "manly," a good unit would find it unacceptable. There is no excuse for sloppiness. There is a clear difference between shoddy appearance (brought on by aging, repaired uniforms and equipment) and sloppy appearance, which is generally the result of neglect or lack of concern. Boots are at least blackened if polishing is not possible, belts are worn straight (not "John Wayne" style, drooping down over the hip), blankets are not draped around the shoulder as capes, and uniforms and equipment are maintained as best the soldier can with what is available to him -- missing buttons are replaced, tears carefully sewn up, etc. (Note: most repairs....on actual....uniforms are very well done, either by being carefully hand stitched or machine sewn. Supply personnel had sewing machines available to them (and persons with some tailor training were generally available to conduct unit-level repairs). Additionally, severely damaged uniforms, etc, were usually exchanged for serviceable items -- the damaged items were then evacuated to a level where, if repair was feasible, it was done by those who knew how to do it and the item returned to the supply system for reissue. Generally, modern armies frown on the soldier sewing up large tears himself -- it usually looks like hell, and, worse, doesn't hold, resulting in the loss of the item when proper maintenance would have prevented the loss. In conclusion, there is no real soldier in the world who hasn't been dirty, unshaven, and looked like hell at some point -- this is not, however, the natural state. Units who allow their soldiers to go on that way don't exist for long. Good appearance and maintenance of equipment are habits which branch into other things -- generally, they are indicators of discipline. Soldiers who are cavalier about correctly wearing the uniform usually exhibit the same sort of cavalier attitude regarding the really important aspects of soldiering -- weapons maintenance, field skills, etc. Good units are built on the sort of discipline that results when soldiers can be trusted to do what they are supposed to without direct supervision. Real or re-enactment, you can tell a lot about a unit when you see one of its soldiers walking down the street alone; does he look as good as when in formation, or is he out of control? While not always true, the old adage "if it looks good, it probably is" is at least a start point for a better-than-average unit. Remember, you are wearing your name on your sleeve. Our thanks to Cpl Michael Dorosh CD for his permission to reproduce this article. Information courtesy www.canadiansoldiers.com |
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Post by lonestarcharlie on Jul 19, 2009 22:15:05 GMT -5
I definitely see Dorosh's point, especially since I've never served in the military. But at the same time, I didn't agree with some of his arguments. It depends on what kind of event is is. I think if it is a public static display event of a non-combat zone, then yes, buttons should be buttoned, faced should be shaved, and everything should be in order. But at tactical battles... I have to disagree to some extent. I try to base my impression and overall look as closely as possible to historical photographs. Overwhelming evidence shows that the common soldier in a combat setting was many times unshaven (Chindits and Marines in the pacific particularly... many had full beards... I'm not talking santa claus style, but they were more than "a few days in combat"... I know how long it takes to grow some of these beards... we're talking months), their clothes barely hanging from their bodies... (again, in the pacific theatre almost all troops (Brits, GIs, Japs) displayed a bare minimum of regard to anything that could remotely be considered military discipline. When you are simply trying your best to survive in what I'm sure can only be described as hellish conditions, I'm guessing everything not essential to staying alive goes out the window.) I think it would look strange for a reenactor doing such an impression to show up with his tunic buttoned to the top and his pants neatly pressed and tucked away into his boots, his chin strap fastened and tightened around his baby smooth chin, all the while with his rifle slung neatly over his shoulder, with a gas mask bag by his side and cartridge belt at the navel (unless of course he was doing an impression of a marine in training, at a parade, or getting on or off a boat).
I guess it depends of what school of reenacting you come from, and what you prefer to emmulate. Are you trying to emmulate the military's goal of the perfect soldier, or the reality, which is a human being, trying to survive as best he can with what he has or can get.
Just my two cents, and as always there is two sides to every story. Anyone on this board could disagree with everything I've said and still be 100% correct, because there are SO many different sides to consider.
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Post by woodard on Jul 20, 2009 11:37:28 GMT -5
I'd even say that it varies based on one's military experience. Most of my time was as a Marine in garrison, while I have a friend who is in the National Guard (most of his time in the field as an Infantryman) and we have differing views on uniformity. I think a "field" impression is important, as long as it's done correctly, and my Korean War unit ends up low crawling in the mud almost every living history.
An important topic, perhaps it should get it's own thread?
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Post by Legion Etrangere on Jul 20, 2009 12:24:48 GMT -5
LoneStarCharlie and woodard,
Thanks for responding.
LSC, I agree with your points about shaving. Many units will allow soldiers one or two weeks of growth during combat; LTCOL Brown's point was the post-operation 'clean up.' When you get back to the rear area, personnel shave, shower, sew up rips in the uniform, service weapons and equipment, etc. Some units do not allow shaving in order to save water [ Gebirgs at high altitudes, Chindits, etc. ] during operations.
Good points guys ... thanks for posting..
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Post by soldatsoucy1 on Jul 20, 2009 13:38:38 GMT -5
Agreed. The last camp mabry was specifically requested to present a field appearance......
but yes, it depends on what you are presenting at the event in your scenario....if carefully scripted it can be done well....if the scenario is a bivouac have a variation of "camp appearance" and patrol appearance could be instructive....the unit should still send out patrols, LPs and the like which will present a mix of field and bivvy appearance depending on duty.
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Post by Legion Etrangere on Jul 20, 2009 13:51:22 GMT -5
the unit should still send out patrols, LPs and the like which will present a mix of field and bivvy appearance depending on duty.
Soucy, great point.
I think Mabry is becoming more tactical each year; this is great for the civilians, especially since they can walk through the camps and see the uniforms, weapons and equipment as it was used in combat.
The show battle is certainly better as well. Jeff Hunt has done a hell of job putting this event on and should be highly commended for it.
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Post by soldatsoucy1 on Jul 20, 2009 14:25:58 GMT -5
Any event where reenactors can take the field and operate as a unit immersed in their roles...sending out patrols, rotation on LPs, guard duty, military protocol, digging fighting positions whether small scrapes during a tactical patrol break, or a full fledged reinforced position with sand bags or whatever at hand would be welcome. Regardless of the temperature, creature comforts, etc.....yeah, i know it aint real.....but I expect that kind of experience whenever and wherever I can get it.
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Post by sgtjeanvaljean on Jul 20, 2009 17:20:39 GMT -5
All of the above have been well thought out and well expressed. As Martini knows, the verse goes as follows. When returning from the field you clean your weapon, restock your ammunition,water and field rations then clean your uniform ( boots first ), clean yourself.
He and many of you on this board have been doing this with me since 1980.
Sgt. Valjean
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Post by lonestarcharlie on Jul 20, 2009 20:47:13 GMT -5
Camp Mabry was really awesome this past year... the scuttle-butt on certain message boards makes it sound like Mabry is a has-been event that should not be supported, but I thought this past year was even better than the year before... the "realism" was kicked up a notch and it was much more INTENSE... the hand to hand combat choreography wasn't cheesy, and the AAR video was amazing...
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sapper
Nouvelle arrivée
Posts: 11 
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Post by sapper on Apr 13, 2014 12:28:24 GMT -5
Greetings,
As Reenacting the Indo China war is a complete new operation for me and starting from scratch I am movving along very well thanks to this site so well done. The one topic i am trying to sort out and that is the beret issue. What I am looking at doing is a platoon medic in 1st. Foreign Parachute Regt. So just to be sure, a Maroon beret up until 1951-52? and green after that ? And was the green a darker colour than the modern day colour? Also came across a reference that some wore the war time khaki beret on operations, is there any truth in this/
Thanks,
Sapper
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Post by lew on Apr 13, 2014 16:44:25 GMT -5
Greetings, As Reenacting the Indo China war is a complete new operation for me and starting from scratch I am movving along very well thanks to this site so well done. The one topic i am trying to sort out and that is the beret issue. What I am looking at doing is a platoon medic in 1st. Foreign Parachute Regt. So just to be sure, a Maroon beret up until 1951-52? and green after that ? And was the green a darker colour than the modern day colour? Also came across a reference that some wore the war time khaki beret on operations, is there any truth in this/ Thanks, Sapper The Legion isn't my focus, but I think they had the green beret from the unit's inception in 1949. They did not have the maroon beret of the colonial paras. Also, it was 1er Bataillion Étranger Parachutiste until June, 1955, when it was upgrade to regimental status. The green beret color has remained constant through the years, but the model used in Indochina was constructed of three parts with a seam around the "crown". The Commandos de Marine had the darker green beret, although that has the insignia on the opposite side. Are you focused on a specific period? What weapons, equipment, and uniform do you have/are planning to acquire. ETA: 1e REP was stood up on 1 July 1948, with the Parachute Batallion (III)/3e REI as the core. 3/3e REI had already adopted the green beret (13e DBLE adopted it in 1940), and thus 1e BEP had the green beret and kepi as standard from the get-go. 2e BEP was formed on October 9 of that year. If you are planning on doing a medic impression, let me know. I have the list of contents and pictures for the Mle. 51 musette de secours (first aid kit), as well as the individual TAP (troupes aéroportées- parachute troops) trousse de secours. The musette is a copy of the US WW2 medic bag. They can still be found fairly easily and cheaply, but they will be empty. I filled mine with modern medical equipment- tourniquets, Israeli bandages, gauze, etc... Much more useful of someone actually gets hurt. |
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sapper
Nouvelle arrivée
Posts: 11
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Post by sapper on Apr 14, 2014 12:10:45 GMT -5
lew,
First thanks for setting me straight on the Unit name. Kit wise at this point I have French issue 2 buckle boots, m-47 trousers, British windproof, US utility belt, 45 ammo pouch, canteen and carrier ( all Ww2 issue) British 37 pattern bren pouch modified with the belt loops and 37 pack, US Govt. 45 in British 37 pattern holster. I have either the US WW2 general purpose ammo bag and the French leather lined ammo bag I was planning on using as a medic bag. I also have a set of both the US and French mess tins and the French squad sized mess tin/billy can. And have a line on proper beret and possible medic bag.
I would be very interested in the contents of the medic bag and photos.
Thank again for your help,
sapper
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Post by lew on Apr 14, 2014 14:53:31 GMT -5
lew, First thanks for setting me straight on the Unit name. Kit wise at this point I have French issue 2 buckle boots, m-47 trousers, British windproof, US utility belt, 45 ammo pouch, canteen and carrier ( all Ww2 issue) British 37 pattern bren pouch modified with the belt loops and 37 pack, US Govt. 45 in British 37 pattern holster. I have either the US WW2 general purpose ammo bag and the French leather lined ammo bag I was planning on using as a medic bag. I also have a set of both the US and French mess tins and the French squad sized mess tin/billy can. And have a line on proper beret and possible medic bag. I would be very interested in the contents of the medic bag and photos. Thank again for your help, sapper You are most welcome. A few items to note: The French-made double buckle boots (Chaussures Mle. 52) were not used in Indochina, but were instead issued to units in the Metropole (France proper) and Algeria. They were the most common boot by far during the Algerian War. Your basic footwear options for Indo are: US M43 boot, French Mle. 49 and 50 (good luck finding either), Patuagas (Palladium Boots still makes the same thing under the name "Hi Pampa" in OD Green. ~$50), and Brodequins Mles. 17 and 45. British kit was largely phased out in most units that were using any to begin with by about 1950, if not earlier. French TAP green web gear is not hard to find. Check ebay.com, ebay.fr, and La Tranchee Militaire. A basic set consists of Mle. 50 suspenders (brelage), Mle. 50 belt (not the later more common 50/53)(ceinturon), Mle. 51 ammo pouches (pochettes de chargeurs), and Mle. 51 canteen with cup and cover (bidon/gourde, tasse, et housse). Substitute/add Mle. 50 holster (étui), pistol mag pouch, or M1 Carbine mag pouch- either US or French-made, or MAT-49 SMG mag pouches. Do not use the Mle. 52 canteen set. That has the wide Bakelite screw top, while the Mle. 51 has a cork. US M-36 suspenders, and WW2-era canteen set will also work. The US M1916 leather holster was popular for M1911 pistols and Browning Hi Powers, both of which were fairly common. The Carlisle bandage pouch is commonly seen. M3 fighting knives were given to the French by the boatload. The Legion para units would mostly have the French TAP web gear. Doursoux.com sells a proper three part red beret if you want to do colonial paras. The single piece berets are fine for Algeria, although they were a little "baggier" than the ones French forces currently wear. Message me your e-mail and I will send what pictures I have of the medical stuff. |
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Post by craigtx on Apr 15, 2014 8:31:17 GMT -5
Although I will mention that the Mle. 50 suspenders are pretty short. I have two that are too short for me. Being 6'4", I'm a bit taller than the average trooper.
So I have to go with repro US suspenders.
Craig
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sapper
Nouvelle arrivée
Posts: 11
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Post by sapper on Apr 15, 2014 9:41:46 GMT -5
Thanks for the help, slowly getting it together.
Sapper
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Post by lew on Apr 15, 2014 9:48:32 GMT -5
I'm 5'10" with an average length torso, so they have plenty of adjustment left for me. Sucks to be you.  |
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Post by craigtx on Apr 16, 2014 8:36:09 GMT -5
Yes, Lew, yes it does...  It also makes gettin' uniforms a problem as well... But I like a challenge...  |
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Post by lew on Apr 16, 2014 9:10:48 GMT -5
Hell, it seems like most of the original uniforms and foot wear are either obscenely small (like made for a small Asian) or ridiculously huge. The latter might be to your advantage.
Now that I think about it, having both a TAP and US web gear setup would cover a lot of para units for most of the war.
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