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Post by Étienne on Mar 15, 2015 12:58:42 GMT -5
I've been looking around for a "cool" personal knife to use for a 1BEP impression, and I think I've narrowed it down to either a K98k, P-1914 or M-1917 bayonet; modified/shortened and etc., of course. I know it's easier to go with a M-3 but you know how it is with gear!
I read some of the threads/postings from awhile back, and a few people mentioned seeing photos of such knives in use by the BEPs. Can anyone post or point me to some of the photos online or in a book? I'm particularly interested in the style of scabbard(s) and/or frogs used.
It appears that Liberty Tree Collectors has a knife scabbard that appears to be what I am interested in (https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=3816&idcategory=0), but they seem to be a bit pricey on them.
Thanks!
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Post by lew on Mar 17, 2015 8:45:37 GMT -5
Northridge has a cut-down P14/M1917 bayonet: www.northridgeinc.com/store/index.cfm/c122/i74-pBAY-72 That's the correct style of scabbard, but the ones with the period-correct russet leather are super uncommon. I do not think the Chassepot scabbard would fit. Both the Paras français books and The Foreign Legion in Indochina have sections dealing with edged weapons. Fighting knife options, ranked by frequency of use: -M3 Fighting Kinife with M8/M8A1 scabbard or M6 sheath (the former being far more common) And everything else, which weren't even close to the number of M3 knives: -M4 bayonet for the M1 Carbine, with either of the above carrying options -P14/M1917 bayonet -K98k bayonet -Fairbairn-Sykes (more common with the colonial paras, 1e Choc, and GCMA) Personally-acquired blades The M3 and M4 knives really picked up in frequency after US aid picked up in 1950 and thereafter. And then, there's nothing saying that one must have a knife, as it seems that as many soldiers went without rather than carry one at all. I have a German Solingen-made Bowie that I plan to use once I have a new sheath made. While we're at it, common pocket knives would have included the Douk-Douk, Opinel, or the special TAP pocket knife modeled after the British WW2 airborne and Royal Navy knives. |
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Post by Étienne on Mar 22, 2015 8:59:23 GMT -5
Thanks once again for all the info! I also just found one of the cut-down P14/M1917 bayonets at Tranchee for 59 euros. But, as you mentioned with the Northridge knife scabbard, the leather seems to be the yellow tanned type. I guess I'll just find a M3 knife and M8/M8A1 sheath...I wish K-Bars had been used as I still have one that I used when I was in the Army but oh well (although I have seen some information that says they were used, but I've never seen a photo). Have you seen the photo of the 8BPC guys interrogating a VM prisoner during Operation Brochet in September 1953, and the guy on the right has a "HJ" knife on his belt? He looks to be maybe 30 so he easily could have been in the HJ...crazy...I'm not going down that route but it is an interesting personal knife to be carrying in Indochina. [BTW, I'm starting to wonder if you and I are the only two people on this board anymore?!]  |
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Post by lew on Mar 22, 2015 20:29:41 GMT -5
[Basically, with the addition of two others- craigtx, dujardins- we are the only two on here. Some interlopers stop by from time to time. Oh well, I don't worry about it. Still lots of information here, and I'm happy to contribute.]
I have the suspicion that the yellow leather could be stained dark brown. I know the chromium tanning process precludes dying it another color, but a stain might work to darken it a couple shades. Or just cut another leather piece, oil it, and replace the yellow leather.
I have seen exactly one picture of a Ka-Bar in use there. I believe Paras Francais en Indochine has one in the knife section toward the end. I've also seen the picture to which you refer. I wish I'd saved it.
The M8's the best bet. I have Ontario's offering. The included metal scabbard should be discarded immediately, but the knife is a fantastic repro.
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Post by Étienne on Mar 23, 2015 19:39:43 GMT -5
Here's one of the mediocre versions of the 8BPC/HJ knife man that I have: Attachments:
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Post by Étienne on Mar 23, 2015 19:50:56 GMT -5
Oops, meant to add some more to the post! I've found a few other really cool pics of the 8BPC...I wish there was a unit specific page I could post them all on (hint, hint any admins out there!). Here's one: Besides the crazy appearance of an HJ knife, what I like about the first photo is that it shows what appears to be "all three types" of 8BPC cap. I put "all three types" in quotes because I think Dennis Lassus stated in one of his articles that there were three types. But, looking at photos of original caps, he's not 100% on his observations (but who the heck cares, as his articles are friggin' amazing). Perhaps there were three basic types, but the styles (of course, like with most such things) overlapped. Thanks for the advice on the M-3, I'll have to check Ontario out. I've seen several original M8 and M8A1 scabbards on ebay, that often go for less than repros, so I guess that's how I'll go regarding a knife. Attachments:
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Post by Étienne on Mar 23, 2015 19:52:28 GMT -5
BUT, if anyone finds a suitable modified (or even a messed up one I can modify) K98k bayonet, please let me know!
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Post by lew on Mar 24, 2015 19:05:02 GMT -5
I would love to see the rest. I like the ones you posted.
Crazy stuff on the HJ knife. A lot of crap made it's way out of Europe into some of the least likely places. One of those knives in Indo doesn't strike me as that odd.
Boker makes an M3 repro, but the handle is too long. Ontario's is much nicer. Landser Outfitters offers a repro K98k bayonet for $60 on eBay (and probably their site). I can't speak for the quality, but I've done business with them in the past and they are squared away. If you're going to go that route, make sure to get a German or Czech (VZ-24) bayonet and not a Yugoslav, which re typically post-War.
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Post by Étienne on Mar 25, 2015 15:18:01 GMT -5
I've been thinking about doing a "quick" write up/starting a new thread on what I know about 8BPC caps, so everyone else can add what they know about them as well...should I start that? I can post all the pics I've "collected" (mainly off the internets) as well
Thanks about the M-3 and bayonets info and sources. I used to have a beat up German bayo that of course now I wish I still had, as I wouldn't feel bad about shortening it. I guess I can look around ebay, as there's bound to be some crusty and rusty one pop up sometime!
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Post by lew on Mar 25, 2015 16:49:19 GMT -5
You are most welcome. I don't see the point in shortening the K98k bayonet. It's comparable in length- if only a little bit longer- than the rest of the fighting knives of the period.
Sounds like a good idea for a thread. The only picture I have is not specific to 8e BPC, but rather the P42 "frog skin" camo Bigeard cap featured in my GCMA book. I can scan the relevant page if that would help.
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Post by Étienne on Mar 25, 2015 17:16:11 GMT -5
Interesting...I thought I read somewhere that the FFL used shortened K98k bayos, but perhaps it was just the P1914/M1917 ones.
Yeah, that'd be great! I don't think I've yet found an original image of a Bigeard cap in frogskin, only windproof or lizard. And, I don't think I've seen any GCMA cap photos.
Ok, I'll start the thread in the appropriate section...but let me first say that if I make any mistakes or if what I say needs corrections, please don't hesitate to say so, as I ain't too proud to take criticism. I just want the info out there and to be correct!
thanks!
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Post by lew on Mar 25, 2015 19:30:00 GMT -5
The picture shows all the pieces of headgear used by the GCMA. Nothing was unit-specific, but the members were pulled from many airborne units, all of which were under the tutelage and training of 11e Choc (which didn't see action in Indo as unit, but sent sub-units to train the GCMA cadres). So, basically, the GCMA was an amalgamation of all the units then in-country.
I'll take the book into work and scan it.
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Post by craigtx on Apr 3, 2015 16:15:03 GMT -5
I picked up one of the cutdown P17 bayonets off eBay. I need to see about darkening the leather on the scabbard, but it's an unique piece and I'm glad I picked one up. I've got a M3, and an Opinel as well. What can I say, I'm a knife guy, and I like options...  Craig |
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Post by lew on Apr 4, 2015 8:13:55 GMT -5
Awesome. How much, if you don't mind sharing?
There are tons of leather staining products available, so I don't see why that wouldn't be a viable option.
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Post by craigtx on Apr 4, 2015 9:04:25 GMT -5
IIRC, I spent around $95 plus shipping.
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Post by earlymb on Mar 3, 2019 11:53:50 GMT -5
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Post by craigtx on Mar 3, 2019 14:08:36 GMT -5
Very nice! Regardless of it's provenance, it's a great lookin' knife! IMO it makes the knife. Nice score!
Craig
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Post by lew on Mar 4, 2019 14:15:28 GMT -5
That's a handsome-looking knife. I'd clean up the blade, but I'd use that for an Indo/Algérie impression without hesitation. France is home to a healthy knife-making industry, and that translates to a tradition of one-off/semi-custom jobs such as that one.
Aside from MAS Mle. 49/56 bayonets, my impressions include the Fairbairn Sykes and Solingen-made Saber brand Bowie. Algeria especially saw a plethora of different knife types- personally-purchase, as well as issued.
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Post by craigtx on Mar 4, 2019 21:11:03 GMT -5
Mine include the the M3 combat knife, the aforementioned cut down M1917 bayonet. A Fairbairn Sykes is on my list to aquire as well.
Craig
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Post by earlymb on Mar 5, 2019 4:41:59 GMT -5
With some help on another forum I found out that the blade is likely to be from a WW1 S98/05 "butcher" bayonet, although these apparently weren't blued until after WW1. How it is attached to the handle exactly is a bit of a mystery to me, but it is very firm in place. It is also suggested that it could have been made for a civilian hunter or farmer.   |
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Post by lew on May 13, 2019 12:16:20 GMT -5
The handle is from a Lebel bayonet.
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Post by craigtx on May 14, 2019 21:23:28 GMT -5
Yes, yes it is...
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Post by earlymb on May 15, 2019 3:43:03 GMT -5
Thanks I figured that one out and also that the blade is made from a German bayonet (see above) but the remaining question is when it was made... Could have been anytime from WW1 till recently!
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Post by lew on May 15, 2019 13:05:19 GMT -5
Given the lack of markings, I'd say that you will never find out where it was cobbled together, not that you should stop inquiring. Every country in Europe at that time had robust blade-making capabilities, and France even moreso than the rest.
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