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Post by lew on Aug 17, 2017 13:15:55 GMT -5
Finally got to around to repairing photobucket's screw-up with nice, new Imgur photo links. I've also thrown in the water carrier. If anyone has any information on it, I would be happy to include it. Enjoy.
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Post by rullow on Aug 18, 2017 5:14:22 GMT -5
Hi Steven - a job well done I d say I have just few notes to the topic the first Bergam bag you have on photo - it seems to me based on M1935 bag.... the only difference is that M1935 has entire back and base made out of leather - otherwise its identic (wire frame etc) TAP50 musette - actually there 3 or 4 types of those the first one is heavilly based on M36 US with snap dots and enclosing straps, second with snap dots replaced by pressions and third one that has simple buttons (also you can note the metallic parts changed too - as well as the way its being enclosed - straps on cover/straps on body) + there is a fourth version of the bag for Marine commandos- and that where I am not so educated .. the fabric should be greener and straps are atatched by D rings on the lower back - but thats all I can tell so far... below some photos of this unicorn for TAP55 bag is good to look on the pressions - if its green colour its post algeria - the earlier models have the pressions just simply blackened - later are painted green _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ For a long time I ve considered TAP50 musette unreacheable and this year I ve came upon two - one replica, one original (on ebay by miracle) - both the same price - cca 40Eur..... the TAP50 commando model was proposed to me around 200 Eur and thats the price you will mostly find on ebay...... but with a bit of patience you ll get yours finally.... luckilly I am now only missing the prewar mountain troops bag - but I think I can live without it
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Post by lew on Aug 18, 2017 14:01:16 GMT -5
Good points, Jakub. The information is certainly appreciated.
I was not aware of the M36 pack copy. That's an obscure one for certain. This post only pertains to Algerian War equipment, but that tidbit is nice to know.
Equipment of the Commandos de Marine would warrant a book of its own.
Na zdraví!
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Post by rullow on Aug 21, 2017 2:57:36 GMT -5
Well its not a direct copy - at least in general view.... the main body of the bag is plus or minus a copy but the straps are taken from british backpack... so its more an amalgame of those two..... the following models show more of french approach - regarding to the straps and buckles - those were changed to be identical with those used on Mle51 musettes or later on TAP55 bag yeah the commandos are a different world it always surprises me
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Post by lew on Aug 21, 2017 13:07:56 GMT -5
Good to know. Děkuji!
Being Navy guys, the CdM's supply channels were vastly different, hence the large amount of items designed in-house specifically for their use.
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Post by Glen Mallen on May 8, 2018 3:00:15 GMT -5
Hi all, is there such a thing as a French copy of a US WW2 "Airborne" Demolition Bag?
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Post by lew on May 8, 2018 14:02:16 GMT -5
Glen, I've never come across such a thing.
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Post by Glen Mallen on May 9, 2018 8:05:01 GMT -5
Thanks for the answer Lew. I have a bag that is may well be very early US WWII production (it is written on the strap ERTC1, which should be Engineer Replacement Training Center #1), but confusingly it looks like French post-war strap ends and buckle on the shoulder strap.
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Post by lew on May 9, 2018 12:35:55 GMT -5
I've never seen a French demo bag, but they did have their own engineering tool bags, comms bags, etc... The medic satchel was a copy of the US design.
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glenm
Nouvelle arrivée
Posts: 1
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Post by glenm on May 15, 2018 13:14:19 GMT -5
These are the same type as mine, Steve - what do you think? Cheers, Glen.
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Post by earlymb on Jul 18, 2019 4:47:19 GMT -5
I saved the pics of the Mle.51 Bergam to my phone as I will leave for the War & Peace Revival Show at Beltring, UK in a few days and this is one of the things I will be looking out for!
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Post by lew on Jul 18, 2019 12:21:29 GMT -5
Bon chance, David! Algerian War-era kit is starting to dry up, but there are still scads of gear out there.
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Post by earlymb on Jul 18, 2019 19:32:26 GMT -5
Thanks! I will be grabbing any original item if the price is right. Not that many people do something with French post-WW2 material so there is a decent chance to get nice items for a good price from un-informed sellers. Another item on the list is a pair of TAP 47/56 trousers that fit me, which might be a lot harder to find.
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Post by lew on Jul 19, 2019 12:46:51 GMT -5
Well, it could be worse: you could be looking for earlier TAP trousers.
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Post by earlymb on Jul 24, 2019 14:41:30 GMT -5
I am at the War & Peace Show Revival now and I need some help. I didn't find the standard pack mentioned above, but I did find one that is very clearly copied from/based on the WW2 British model Bergan. It is OD green French webbing with webbing straps and the frame has a small folding shelf for radio's etc. As usual the stampings are unreadable. I don't have a pic but I'll try to get one tomorrow. Anyone know this pack and is it any good?
To end on a positive note, I did find a mint pair of 47/56 TAP trousers in my size for a very good price.
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Post by lew on Jul 25, 2019 13:08:20 GMT -5
It's not the TAP 50/53 pack displayed in the original post, is it? That thing is a beast. Must weight ten pounds empty. There is a shelf on the bottom to support the pack bag. If it is that, skip it. I'm convinced it was envisioned as a torture device. Also, the only instances of them I've seen in use are as catch-all bag strapped to the spare tire of a jeep, stowed in barracks, and, in a rare field setting, 2e RPC using them to haul their crap while leaving Suez.
2e RPC jumped with Mle. 55 TAP and "Bergen" packs, so these were almost certainly little more than glorified duffel bags.
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Post by earlymb on Jul 25, 2019 15:04:23 GMT -5
It's not the TAP 50/53 pack displayed in the original post, is it? That thing is a beast. Must weight ten pounds empty. There is a shelf on the bottom to support the pack bag. If it is that, skip it. I'm convinced it was envisioned as a torture device. Also, the only instances of them I've seen in use are as catch-all bag strapped to the spare tire of a jeep, stowed in barracks, and, in a rare field setting, 2e RPC using them to haul their crap while leaving Suez. 2e RPC jumped with Mle. 55 TAP and "Bergen" packs, so these were almost certainly little more than glorified duffel bags. It is indeed the 50/53 pack! I will take your advice and not buy it. I asked the owner of La Tranché who have a stall here and he says the Bergan is easy to find in France but he didn't bring any. I saw one today but it was on the back of a visitor. It seems that is the only one around, but I do the stalls every day so maybe... Thanks for your help! 😃
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Post by lew on Jul 26, 2019 13:08:52 GMT -5
C'est avec plaisir que je vous aide. I have two of the bastards. If anyone wants to pay for shipping, they're yours. Now, if I ever recreated an Algerian War-era "fort", I'd have them on the shelf along with the helmets and other crap that was seldom used.
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Post by rullow on Jul 29, 2019 6:08:57 GMT -5
Yep only use for that thing is to carry into the car so I can have my hands free - it can hold a ton of material, however just 20metres walk is a torture ...
do not buy - save you money for bergram - it is an omnipresent bag used by all units.... later on you can add TAP55 and TAP50 musettes to complete the period field backpacks....
Jakub
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Post by earlymb on Jul 29, 2019 6:14:17 GMT -5
I got back home yesterday and unfortunately I didn't find the bergam; as advised I left the 50/53 behind although I heard they were in fact used in the field in Indo-China?
I'm looking on eBay.fr to see what is being offered and what they go for on average, but postage will be a killer I'm afraid...
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Post by lew on Jul 29, 2019 12:44:51 GMT -5
I got all of my packs through ebay.fr. Postage here to the states was reasonable on all of them, so you should be fine in Europe.
I still haven't found pictures or mention of them in use in the field in Indochine. I think they were introduced too late. If they saw any use, it would have been in the last few months of the war.
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Post by rullow on Jul 31, 2019 6:24:28 GMT -5
COnfirm that I never saw any in actual use in combat or patrol duties. (neither Indo, neither Algeria) It is soscarce thats even to find a photo os some hanging on the shelfs.... most likely they were used as duffel bags - just to transport the things to the garrison.....
Its a nice piece to have if for a good price, but actualy just to fill the gap in the collection...
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Post by earlymb on Aug 10, 2019 5:31:51 GMT -5
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Post by Kenneth on Aug 12, 2019 7:06:31 GMT -5
I just have to say that is in probably the best condition for something that old. The canvas looks virtually new, although as you pointed out, leather does not age well in storage. I imagine that is one of the older ones. The one I have has the yellow(ish) leather but the later ones have green leather. They used that model for a long time but I find it rather uncomfortable to actually use as a backpack.
I happened to see a video of a Bastille Day parade in Paris from sometime in the 70s, I think. The mountain troops were all carrying very similar rucksacks (with yellow leather) that were obviously filled out with something to give them and the side pockets a very boxy appearance. I regret not getting one while Trenchee had them. Not the only regret I've every had in life.
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Post by earlymb on Aug 12, 2019 7:47:10 GMT -5
The canvas is fine but some of the leather straps are actually half cracked and might even show possible signs of early red-rot...from which there is no way back. I am however working the leather with oil in the hope that will get the leather a bit more supple again, which will take some time.
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Post by lew on Aug 12, 2019 12:26:46 GMT -5
As long as you're not using mink or neatsfoot oil, that leather will be happy. Good score.
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Post by Kenneth on Aug 12, 2019 15:43:45 GMT -5
I have used Obenauf's oil and leather conditioner (two different products) with good results on boots but it's hard to find in person. There are also other leather preservative products available from logging supply houses but I haven't used any others. Don't know what French soldiers might have used but if I know soldiers, probably nothing. There was a time when soldiers were supposed to use boot grease (dubbin) but that was before I was born.
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Post by earlymb on Aug 12, 2019 19:15:35 GMT -5
Thanks! I used a leather oil I bought at a saddle shop but no idea what it is exactly; I have used it on leather jackets etc. before without any problems. I doubt the leather got much attention during its service. I found a few other bergams for sale on that website so maybe I'll get one or two more. Was the yellow leather used in Algeria? I've seen a pic in Guyader's book of yellow belts & pouches being worn, but nothing about those bergams. I've understood that for Indochina you'll need one with khaki canvas rather than green
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Post by lew on Aug 13, 2019 12:17:38 GMT -5
Yellow leather came out in late-'62, so too late for Algeria. Green leather came out after 1970.
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Post by earlymb on Aug 14, 2019 3:35:18 GMT -5
I'll stick to the brown leather then. Not rare indeed but prices vary a bit.
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