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Post by rasperguy on Sept 10, 2015 19:00:52 GMT -5
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Post by rasperguy on Sept 10, 2015 19:01:35 GMT -5
Hand over one more wine cup
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Post by rasperguy on Sept 10, 2015 19:02:25 GMT -5
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Post by lew on Sept 10, 2015 19:33:18 GMT -5
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Post by rasperguy on Sept 10, 2015 19:37:29 GMT -5
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Post by brunogunn on Sept 10, 2015 19:43:07 GMT -5
That looks good. Really good. I wish I wasn't this far away; I'd happily join in with ya. I like that you have a "Viet", too. From where do you get blank ammunition? If I may nitpick (and I will ), to go with the time period indicated by the uniforms, tan chapeaus de brousse should be on the way out and replaced with the OD variant. What pack is that with the helmet perched atop? Again, very nice impressions. Our Viet (actually Taiwanese) guy is in loaner gear which is why the outdated tan chapeaus de brousse, the other guy is our French LT and cant make it in uniform. The pack with the helmet on it is the "Sac à dos armature pliable et détachable type TAP modèle 1950" with its kidney crushing frame. Atlantic Wall has the blanks, they have them set up with powder for the MAS36, and more powerful for the MAS49 so they will cycle.
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Post by lew on Sept 11, 2015 9:12:18 GMT -5
Have you found any pictures of the sac à dos TAP 50 in actual field use? As I mentioned in my Algerian War pack thread, the only examples I've seen were 1) one strapped to the spare tire on a Hotchkiss 201 being used as a hold-all/misc. gear bag and 2) a line of them on a shelf in an 11e Choc caserne, presumably gathering dust until they get turned back in. Given the crap design, far better alternatives, and typically light pack loads, it's not surprising they weren't seen much.
Atlantic Wall: noted. I'm assuming they work fine for the 49/56 with the blank firing adapter. Will they actually cycle a Mle. 49 (which has no provision for a BFA)? That would be awesome (yet improbable) if they somehow did. I'd rather not have to use mine like a bolt action.
No worries on the chapeau de brousse. A couple tan ones interspersed would be fine, but, since we're all striving for the average portrayal, the OD variant should dominate.
Again, fantastic presentation. If you ever make it out to Arizona, I have enough weapons and equipment to outfit an entire fire team (squad if we want to mix TTA and TAP unifomrms). I just need to find some Algerians to play the roles of harkis and fells...
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Post by brunogunn on Sept 11, 2015 15:44:46 GMT -5
Atlantic Wall: noted. I'm assuming they work fine for the 49/56 with the blank firing adapter. Will they actually cycle a Mle. 49 (which has no provision for a BFA)? That would be awesome (yet improbable) if they somehow did. I'd rather not have to use mine like a bolt action. Made for all 7.5X54 French weapons www.atlanticwallblanks.com/75-FRENCH-FULL-LENGTH-BLANK_p_126.html
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Post by brunogunn on Sept 11, 2015 15:53:47 GMT -5
Have you found any pictures of the sac à dos TAP 50 in actual field use? As I mentioned in my Algerian War pack thread, the only examples I've seen were 1) one strapped to the spare tire on a Hotchkiss 201 being used as a hold-all/misc. gear bag and 2) a line of them on a shelf in an 11e Choc caserne, presumably gathering dust until they get turned back in. Given the crap design, far better alternatives, and typically light pack loads, it's not surprising they weren't seen much. There aren't many photos of the TAP 50, I know there's one with a stick loading a copter all the guys are issued the TAP 50, its uncomfortable as hell yeah you can load an entire impression minus the weapon into it. You are correct there were much better rucks like the mountain bergam Mle1950 with the X frame, the musette TAP 1950 is about good for a day or two, but anything past that and you'll run out of supplies.
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Post by lew on Sept 11, 2015 16:53:25 GMT -5
I'd like to see that picture if you have it.
For a better, more representative impression, I'd say to ditch the TAP 50 sac à dos and replace with a Bergamn Mle. 51 or a musette TAP Mle. 50, 51, or 55. I have two of the TAP 50 rucks and I guarantee they will do nothing but sit on the shelf.
Anyhow, carry on. You folks have a solid show.
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Post by rasperguy on Sept 14, 2015 6:19:52 GMT -5
Why not? Usually I have a carbine and the radio, I used the MAS for that Pic shot. I reenact as I would fight. Little too cookie cutter Lew
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Post by rasperguy on Sept 14, 2015 6:28:52 GMT -5
Have you found any pictures of the sac à dos TAP 50 in actual field use? As I mentioned in my Algerian War pack thread, the only examples I've seen were 1) one strapped to the spare tire on a Hotchkiss 201 being used as a hold-all/misc. gear bag and 2) a line of them on a shelf in an 11e Choc caserne, presumably gathering dust until they get turned back in. Given the crap design, far better alternatives, and typically light pack loads, it's not surprising they weren't seen much. There aren't many photos of the TAP 50, I know there's one with a stick loading a copter all the guys are issued the TAP 50, its uncomfortable as hell yeah you can load an entire impression minus the weapon into it. You are correct there were much better rucks like the mountain bergam Mle1950 with the X frame, the musette TAP 1950 is about good for a day or two, but anything past that and you'll run out of supplies. Where did comfort come into mind when soldiers have to carry kit in the field? From what I have seen in pics and read the French did not go out more than a week on patrols, any longer they where resupplied via ground or air. So a 3-5 day supply was probably the norm on patrols. This was the common load in WWII patrols as well, the last vestiges of a realistic load for a soldier, vs. the explosion of crap to wear and carry that evolved out of America's Nam experience, "elephant soldier". So the smaller mussettes or rucks would be more practical and realistic for a soldier. If you wear your kit reenacting as you would be wearing it yourself if you where there, match to the type of mission most commonly done by your representative unit, vs. looking like a militeria pin up you would start to get a better feel for the kit. Field soldiers rarely carry if they have a choice more kit vs. less, unless its ammo or water, or a side arm.
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Post by rasperguy on Sept 14, 2015 6:35:04 GMT -5
I'd like to see that picture if you have it. For a better, more representative impression, I'd say to ditch the TAP 50 sac à dos and replace with a Bergamn Mle. 51 or a musette TAP Mle. 50, 51, or 55. I have two of the TAP 50 rucks and I guarantee they will do nothing but sit on the shelf. Anyhow, carry on. You folks have a solid show. I use the TAP 50 like a deployment bag if I was there for real, like Ken says it holds a lot of kit. If there was a patrol base or FAB made it would be my logical choice to carry all those creature comfort items, extra clothes etc. for a short distance haul, mostly mechanized. I would use my 55 as the patrol bag, as I am the radioman and carry a M1 carbine it is the right size to carry for the typical 3-5 day patrol. From what I see and read this was the typical deployment for paras in the field.
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Post by lew on Sept 14, 2015 10:54:19 GMT -5
Why not? Usually I have a carbine and the radio, I used the MAS for that Pic shot. I reenact as I would fight. Little too cookie cutter Lew Lighten up, I was messing with ya. No need to get testy. The reason I inquired about the TAP 50 pack is thus: I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 11,000 pictures pertaining to Algeria, about a quarter that for Indo, and around two hundred book titles, most of which have pictures of troops on operation, and some describe the equipment carried (Your pack list is pretty spot-on. Spare uniforms were usually dropped.). Every pack from the musettes Mles. 50, 51, and 55 TAP, Mle. 51 TTA, sac à dos Mle. 51 and other Bergams are seen over and over again, yet the TAP 50 ruck is nowhere to be found except for the two pictures I mentioned earlier. I don't claim to have every shred of photographic evidence, but what I do have is fairly comprehensive. I have seen no documentation of that ruck in field use. Given the lack of evidence and other, more capable options, most people would rightly be led to believe that that pack was not used in the field by the average soldier, para or otherwise. If evidence is presented that it was indeed used, I'd be happy to reconsider. If you want to use it sans documentation, then have at it, but a few of us like to do our best to portray things as they were, not as how we would do it. Cheers!
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Post by rasperguy on Sept 14, 2015 11:21:53 GMT -5
Why not? Usually I have a carbine and the radio, I used the MAS for that Pic shot. I reenact as I would fight. Little too cookie cutter Lew Lighten up, I was messing with ya. No need to get testy. The reason I inquired about the TAP 50 pack is thus: I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 11,000 pictures pertaining to Algeria, about a quarter that for Indo, and around two hundred book titles, most of which have pictures of troops on operation, and some describe the equipment carried (Your pack list is pretty spot-on. Spare uniforms were usually dropped.). Every pack from the musettes Mles. 50, 51, and 55 TAP, Mle. 51 TTA, sac à dos Mle. 51 and other Bergams are seen over and over again, yet the TAP 50 ruck is nowhere to be found except for the two pictures I mentioned earlier. I don't claim to have every shred of photographic evidence, but what I do have is fairly comprehensive. I have seen no documentation of that ruck in field use. Given the lack of evidence and other, more capable options, most people would rightly be led to believe that that pack was not used in the field by the average soldier, para or otherwise. If evidence is presented that it was indeed used, I'd be happy to reconsider. If you want to use it sans documentation, then have at it, but a few of us like to do our best to portray things as they were, not as how we would do it. Cheers! Sorry new on board and been trolled before so gun shy...As they are is how they did it for a soldier...practicality and comfort unless there is a culture against doing something that makes sense, like the Aztecs not inventing the wheel against some kit form...I agree if they didn't get issued an item, or there was a standing order against it, I agree... I would have to agree with you on the pack, it would not be something I would like to fill and pack for any length of time, and agree, seen next to no pics of guys wearing them in the field. It is like the modern MOLLE II pack, no one wears it around on patrol, it is a deployment pack as I described and everyone uses their patrol pack on patrol.
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Post by lew on Sept 14, 2015 12:14:09 GMT -5
Way too much like the MOLLE II pack, but that's another discussion. If shipping wasn't so much, I'd be happy to send my two TAP 50's and be done with them. I like the gear bag idea, though. I understand completely. I have an objective and analytical nature that results in a direct manner of dealing with people. Sometimes, that is mistaken for a confrontational attitude (I reserve that hostility for our illustrious government). I'm way to chilled and apathetic to get worked up. Peace!
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Post by rasperguy on Sept 14, 2015 13:09:46 GMT -5
Way too much like the MOLLE II pack, but that's another discussion. If shipping wasn't so much, I'd be happy to send my two TAP 50's and be done with them. I like the gear bag idea, though. I understand completely. I have an objective and analytical nature that results in a direct manner of dealing with people. Sometimes, that is mistaken for a confrontational attitude (I reserve that hostility for our illustrious government). I'm way to chilled and apathetic to get worked up. Peace! Guys in my unit might be interested in them. Our CPL is finding more pics of us using them in suez and Algeria, though it does look like they are using them to deploy and not to patrol like I mentioned...funny thing is I put my WWI/II big French tin in the same area on my TAP 50 as this guy.
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Post by lew on Sept 14, 2015 19:43:47 GMT -5
Those look more like Mle. 51 Bergams, especially with the buckle positioning. The one on the right in the first picture with the mess kit is definitely a Bergam. The sergent chef on the left looks like he has both a Mle. Bergam and a TAP 50 or 51 musette.
Are those both of 1e REP? Very neat photos.
In any event, I'd be happy to let the two of them go for the price of shipping. It'll be a month or so until they get unpacked, though.
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Post by rasperguy on Sept 14, 2015 19:55:31 GMT -5
Those look more like Mle. 51 Bergams, especially with the buckle positioning. The one on the right in the first picture with the mess kit is definitely a Bergam. The sergent chef on the left looks like he has both a Mle. Bergam and a TAP 50 or 51 musette. Are those both of 1e REP? Very neat photos. In any event, I'd be happy to let the two of them go for the price of shipping. It'll be a month or so until they get unpacked, though. Yes from the Canal deployment... I laughed when I saw this as I carry the same ruck and the same mussette with mess tin, on my ruck. As stated earlier one to carry all that kit to be grounded in a camp and one to patrol with.
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Post by lew on Sept 15, 2015 7:19:50 GMT -5
Yessir. I like my 11e Choc impression. They frequently carried only weapons, ammo, radio, water, and a bag of cooked rice and were out in the field for two weeks or more. That's how I'd prefer to travel. Thanks for the pictures, too. I need to add to my Legion photos.
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schmutz
Nouvelle arrivée
Check the wire, please
Posts: 15
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Post by schmutz on Sept 19, 2015 14:30:02 GMT -5
Gents:
Your all invited to next years Dien Bien Phu National Battle, Parsons KS in June, 2016.
We posted an event notice and should have the authenticity guidelines up this week.
If you have any q's, post away.
All units - French Indo & Viet Mihn are invited to participate.
Cheers,
Mick
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