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Post by befo on Jun 2, 2015 21:01:39 GMT -5
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befo
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Posts: 45
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Post by befo on Jun 2, 2015 21:03:48 GMT -5
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befo
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Post by befo on Jun 2, 2015 21:04:33 GMT -5
close up of makers marks on mess tin, small Kraut stove
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befo
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Post by befo on Jun 2, 2015 21:05:22 GMT -5
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befo
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Post by befo on Jun 2, 2015 21:06:40 GMT -5
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befo
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Post by befo on Jun 2, 2015 21:07:26 GMT -5
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befo
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Post by befo on Jun 2, 2015 21:08:18 GMT -5
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befo
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Post by befo on Jun 2, 2015 21:09:06 GMT -5
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befo
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Post by befo on Jun 2, 2015 21:09:59 GMT -5
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Post by befo on Jun 2, 2015 21:10:50 GMT -5
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Post by befo on Jun 2, 2015 21:11:26 GMT -5
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Post by befo on Jun 2, 2015 21:12:46 GMT -5
Para uniform, OD cotton field jacket
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befo
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Post by befo on Jun 2, 2015 21:13:33 GMT -5
MOre of the OD field jacket.
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Post by befo on Jun 2, 2015 21:14:19 GMT -5
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Post by befo on Jun 2, 2015 21:14:57 GMT -5
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befo
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Post by befo on Jun 2, 2015 21:19:58 GMT -5
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Post by lew on Jun 3, 2015 2:10:28 GMT -5
A few comments:
Excellent job on the pack. Make sure to treat the leather to keep it from cracking or otherwise deteriorating. Same goes for the cleaning kit. Is that the Mle. 56 shelter half or the Mle. 51 "Zeltbahn" triangle?
If the boots are pebble grain leather, they are the Mle. 65 that the French armed forces still issue. I can't be certain of the second digit of the date. "7"? If so, those are too late for Algeria, but excellent for a post-War impression. Also, they're just nice to wear about town. The brown Mle. 52 boots are the third type introduced in the 1st trimester 1960. Those look good. Again, oil 'em up before use and regularly thereafter. Avoid Neatsfoot oil/compound.
Does that spade on the helmet look original? Painted helmets of any sort were rare in French service, typically limited to officer's rank on the front. 1e RCP did paint their unit insignia on most of theirs.
I'd say stick with the ground cloth. However- and I will have to check my reference material- I have nothing to suggest that French forces issued a ground cloth. Someone correct me if I am wrong. In fact, in Simon Murrray's book Legionnaire, he mentions bringing a plastic sheet along on a training mission. The way it is mentioned makes it seem like a novelty, although it certainly proved its worth.
The chevrons are not French. The collar tabs are the colors of artillery, and the bomb leads me to believe they are of a school. They do look to be of the period.
Mle. 52 mess kit (gamelle) and the Esbit stove are good. Enamel cup is out. The canteen cup was used in the field.
The OD uniform is the TTA Mle. 47/52. The second OD jacket is the 47/54. Those rank slides are not French.
Your para uniform is an original (!) Tenue TAP Mle. 47/53. Very nice. These didn't see much use, being issued late in Indochina, and being superseded by the Tenue TAP Mle. 47/54 shortly thereafter. I'm guessing the writing is meant to say "Meine Ehre heißt Treue", which is the SS motto. However, seeing to the fact that these uniforms were primarily issued to the Viet and Laotian parachute battalions, I fail to see a German connection. Still, you have a very rare uniform in superb condition.
The Mle. 49 chapeau de brousse (bush hat) looks great. The béret noir was used by the Commandos de l'Air- Air Force Commandos- starting in mid-1956. Very cool unit, and the only thing stopping me from doing an impression is some of their specialty clothing- casquettes and their own dark green trousers.
I've never seen a two-cell grenade pouch like that. The M1910 wire hanger leads me to believe it's American, as the French copy uses a simple belt loop that spans the width of the pouch. The ammo pouch is the Mle. 50/53 pochette de chargeurs TAP. You will need another to match as they were always issued in pairs.
All in all, a very healthy start.
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befo
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Post by befo on Jun 3, 2015 11:29:18 GMT -5
Thanks for all the information. The boots are one size too small, but the uniforms fit perfect. I forgot to take pictures of the two khaki shirts I have that came with the kit (all of this came from one person for only $300)
The spade on the helmet is not original, apparently it was used as a U.S. 101st Abn impression at some point, so I need to repaint it I guess. Plus I need a helmet net.
What color beret would go with all of this kit? I have seen maroon, green and black. I have a dark green one (wearing it in the profile pic) I have an early para beret badge (on the beret in my profile picture) and would like to do a paratrooper impression from the correct era for the uniforms I have.
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Post by lew on Jun 3, 2015 12:49:21 GMT -5
A size 45 is one size too small? Holy friggin' clown shoes, mate. I've done business with this gentleman on a couple occasions and he has the correct paint: www.jmurrayinc1944.com/parts-restoration-supplies/paint-products/The unit and time period you choose is going to dictate what uniform is correct. You have a lot of options with berets. Here's a quick run down: Dark green, fold to the left side of the head: Foreign Legion TAP 1948-present, TTA FFL units sometime after that, I'm not exactly sure when. Dark Green, fold to right: Commandos de Marine Red/Maroon: Colonial/Marine TAP 1949-present, Metropolitan tAP September 1957-present Royal blue: Metro TAP- 1952-9/1957, Aviation Légere de l'Armée (ALAT) 1952-present White: Indochinese TAP Dark blue: Troupes de Marine, TTA units (infantry, artillery, armor, etc...) 1958-present Black: Commandos de l'Air 1956-present [all but one unit was disbanded after the Algiers Putsch in late April 1961] Black, really huge: Chasseurs Alpins Naval cap with pom pon: Fusiliers de Marine Your brevet parachutiste is correct for all Army and Navy airborne units post ~1947. The Commandos de l'Air have their own brevet. TAP= Troupes Aéroportées= airborne troops (plus Commandos de Marine et de l'Air TTA= TouTes Armes= all arms= everyone not airborne/commando Put simply, your Tenue TAP Mle. 47/53 would be great for a late Indochina BPVN (Bataillons Parachutistes Vietnamiens) or early Algerian War colonial airborne. The OD TTA uniforms would work just about anything non-airborne from 1952-1962. Given what you have right now, I would shoot for an Algerian War TTA impression. Add a pair of Pataugas (bush shoes, chaussures de brousse), and you could easily do a later Indochina infantry impression. The Mle. 52 boot was not issued to troops in the Far East. If you wish to use the MAS Mle. 49/56, that reached TAP units in Algeria first in late 1958 and TTA units in early 1960. The M1 Carbine would work for the entire duration of both conflicts. If you were to add a Mle. 47/56 TAP uniform, you would be able to cover an airborne unit for the entirety of the Algerian War. Some airborne units in Algeria had their own distinctive head wear prior to the army standardizing in April 1958: 1e RCP had a "lizard" camo beret; 2e RPC and 14e RCP each had their own distinct camo bush hats. Other units wore their particular beret, the casquette Bigeard (later standardized as the Mle. 59), chapeau de brousse, and helmets. Helmets were mostly worn earlier in the war and in urban areas. Outside of that, one doesn't see much. Indochina is much more nuanced with regards to uniforms and weaponry. I may have mentioned it before, but we're working with Cary (Panzerfaust 1943) to make repros of the tenue TAP Mle 47/52, which was first issued to troops in Indochina in mid-1953. If you see a lizard camo uniform in Indochina, it's probably the 47/52. Let me know if you want to join in. Confused yet? There's a lot of information to process. Feel free to ask questions.
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befo
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Post by befo on Jun 3, 2015 20:36:15 GMT -5
I like the idea of doing an FFL paratrooper impression, Algerian War 1958-62? Or a Indochina BPVN (Bataillons Parachutistes Vietnamiens), Maybe the 5th since it was at Dien Bein Phu?. So the beret I need is a "Red/Maroon: Colonial/Marine TAP 1949-present" I have a Brit beret from the 1950's are the maroon ones for the Colonial/Marine TAP one or multi piece?
To answer your question from a post ago, it is a Mle. 51 "Zeltbahn" triangle, not shelter half.
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befo
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Post by befo on Jun 3, 2015 21:13:57 GMT -5
Here is a hat I have been wearing for a long time. It is a Beo-Gam camo pattern and the cap is cut in an A2 pilots hat style cut. I saw a picture of a Mercenary in the Congo in about 1967 with a khaki cap just like this and the TAP beret insignia on it just like this one. He was one of FFL that mutinied over Algeria most likely. Anyway, I wear this all the time, the badge is one I have had for over 20 years, it was one of the first foreign paratrooper badges I ever collected. It has been on every single parachute jump I made since 1993. It is my good luck charm.
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befo
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Post by befo on Jun 3, 2015 21:15:43 GMT -5
Can you guys tell me what time period this was made?
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befo
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Post by befo on Jun 3, 2015 21:17:26 GMT -5
TAP brevet I got overseas in 1997 I think, not sure the age on it. Is it Okay?
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Post by befo on Jun 3, 2015 21:18:50 GMT -5
This came with the all the uniforms as well.. Also, I forgot to take pictures of the two "L4" khaki shirts I have as well.
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Post by lew on Jun 4, 2015 7:51:52 GMT -5
That badge is of 2e REI (Régiment d'Infanterie Étrangère- Foreign Infantry Regiment). The brevet parachtutiste would work just fine. The insigne TAP on the hat would work for both the colonial and FFL paras. The Beogam pattern was post-French involvement, but popular with US advisers early in that war.
The Mle. 51 toile de tente was issued up until the end of the Algerian War. While the Mle. 56 shelter half had taken over as the preferred choice of shelter, the Mle. 51 was still issued as a poncho (hence the neck opening in the middle).
I think those two impressions would be a fantastic start.
A 5e BPVN impression would be good to go with your 47/53's. You would need a béret rouge de trois parties (three-piece red beret)*. The BPVN's were also issued the Mle. 50/53 ceinturon (belt) instead of the Mle. 50, so that makes your search much easier. British berets fold to the right and are a different shade, so they would stick out as incorrect. The colonial airborne units wore the winged dagger beret insignia you have until April, 1958 when they were re-designated as Marine Infantry Parachute Regiments (RPIMa).
As for a 1e/2e REP impression, the 47/53 uniform you have plus a 47/56 uniform* would have you covered for the duration of the war. Your current one-piece green beret would work, but a three-piece beret* would be better for the first couple years of the war. The beret insignia you have is still used by FFL paras (2e REP) today. Both of those units would have been issued identical clothing and equipment. A note on headgear: FFL troops in Algeria did not wear the Bigeard cap; only the Mle. 49 chapeau de brousse and the green beret were authorized. The only difference would be the unit insignia.
For both a 5e BPVN and 1e/2e REP impression, here's the web gear you would need:
-Mle. 50/53 belt -Mle. 50/53 suspenders -Mle. 50/53 pochette de chargeurs, x2 (of which, you already have one) or M1 Carbine pouches [Carbine mags will fit in the 50/53 and were used that way. Use the 50/53 with the MAS Mle. 49/56.] -Mle. 51 canteen for Indochina (a US M1910 will do if you can't find a Mle. 51, but it would be less than ideal at the BPVN's were issued all new equipment) -Mle. 52 canteen for Algeria
*Doursoux.com sells red (colonial paras) and green (Foreign Legion paras) three-piece berets for about 30€ a piece. Also, they sell fantastic reproductions of the Mle. 47/56 tenue TAP jacket and trousers, plus a nice Bigeard cap (not worn by the FFL, but worn by everyone else). The uniform is pricey, but well worth it, and, with what you already have, you'd be all set for the entire Algerian War.
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befo
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Post by befo on Jun 4, 2015 14:47:50 GMT -5
This was offered to me for $200, it is an original (at least he says so) Colonial Para beret in my size. I was a little shocked at the price, but after looking a bit it seems these older originals in big sizes are NOT cheap! Is it worth it? Attachments:
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Post by lew on Jun 4, 2015 17:22:39 GMT -5
I think it's a little steep, but not entirely unreasonable. I forked over half that for a blue three-piece beret, which is even more uncommon. However, the opportunity to buy is unlikely to present again anytime soon. [You should see the price for an original Commandos de Marine béret vert. ] If it's free of moth holes and the insignia is of the period, I would try to haggle with the seller. With that being said, I intend to wear my equipment, so I'd rather not risk destroying an expensive and rare original piece. My three-piece blue beret is a collection item only. All the rest of my berets are repros, and Doursoux's offerings fit the bill exceedingly well. How many parachute jumps have you made? Military or not? Member craigtx is/was an avid skydiver. I'd love to do a static line jump in period kit, but my interest stops there. Now, if I could get my own H-34 Chcotaw or H-21 Shawnee helicopter and paint it with French markings...
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befo
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Post by befo on Jun 4, 2015 20:19:32 GMT -5
I have about 40 jumps.. I have three jump logs and mine are all military. I have U.S. wings, South African Parabat wings, German Fallschirmjäger wings, and unofficial awarded South Korean ones (I was not on jump status but was able to sneak in a jump when I was there in 1994-95.
I would love to do a jump in period kit.
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